25695 Posts in 4313 Topics - by 9405 Members - Latest Member: SineWav3

Author Topic: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Mods: Balance & Difficulty Mods  (Read 8123 times)

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 03:18:41 AM »
Hehe, I'm glad. Remember to lower the difficulty on your galaxy to AT LEAST Veteran or Normal.

Normal should feel harder than vanilla "Insane". So don't play on Insane WITH these mods until you get used to it.

I've found Veteran to be challenging and hard but not "scary". My intent is make normal feel "normal" and challenging but still relaxed and Veteran to really start kicking your ass...

Beyond that it should get INSANE!!! ;)

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 04:34:33 AM »
Yeah, after some more playing, battles now definitely feel more intense. Also, I'm gonna have to chuck away ALL my fighters because they're now basically useless, but what I get in return will be much, much more fun fighters. ;)

Also... the sizes of these guns! Sheesh! Bigger than the bridge of my Flagship...!

I will say though that because of the larger hull sizes, ships like the Xsotan now are very blocky, and they look less menacing in physique than before. Not sure how much you could do about that; that's just what Avorion does when you tell it to "up the blockage".

EDIT:
This is sweet. I have to run away again and boost to safety on the brink of destruction. It's just like I'm playing the early game again with a fragile ship, even though I'm playing an all-out epic space battle with 50 fighters in on the action as well. I like the new Xsotan ship names too.  Pretty cool.

EDIT II:
Oh hell! One of those Xsotan scumbags just gave my capital ship a wicked tail slap like a whale; exploded me on the spot! Jeebus!! D:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 04:53:57 AM by Shrooblord »
Shrooblord

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 05:00:16 AM »
Glad you like it dude.

Yeah as far as the scaled up gun sizes (which do look awesome though) there's nothing I can do about that now because it comes with the increased volumes on ships. Also the ships are all randomly generated and again I can't do anything about that but in a way it's cool to see Pirate Motherships and Xsotan ships that are menacingly large. LOL

I need to tweak quite a few things, especially the economy mod. I want the amount of goods you receive from raiding to be a fun amount but not economy-breaking. I may have gone overboard with the volumes for some really expensive things, but that's because I need to see how many goods drop and then adjust it down.

I want it to be where you receive maybe 1-50 large/expensive goods, like Mining Robots, but not 1000-5000... Because then after 1 raid you have 100's of millions of credits and the economy in the game is meaningless.

Let me know if you find anything to be TOO intense or overkill OR if there's anything that's not nerfed enough. Balance is a hard thing to get to without player feedback.

Thanks.

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 11:59:45 AM »
I want it to be where you receive maybe 1-50 large/expensive goods, like Mining Robots, but not 1000-5000... Because then after 1 raid you have 100's of millions of credits and the economy in the game is meaningless.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that's a healthy trade. And sure, let me get back to you on how evil the nerf is once I find something with a valuable commodity and blow it up.

Quote
Let me know if you find anything to be TOO intense or overkill OR if there's anything that's not nerfed enough. Balance is a hard thing to get to without player feedback.
Well actually I've been playing a bit and trying to match up my ships to the new strength of the Xsotan and Pirates who are constantly raiding my base, but I find it very hard to fill my ships' System Module slots with anything meaningful. I'm having to throw in five energy upgrades just so I can support one shield and one turret upgrade, for example. Definitely a game changer. But maybe that just means I need to incorporate more energy cores into my design: I'll get back to you on that, too.
In the meantime, maybe consider buffing the nerfs to System Modules back up by a tiny amount, say 5%, and see how that is. I do like that the game is now harder to, er, "game", but I have a tiny gut feeling it's just a little too overboard. What do you think?

Also I think you mentioned that with respect to the enemies now being much, much more powerful, there'd be less frequent attacks, right? I've noticed that they're still dropping in on me around every five to ten, fifteen minutes (hard to gague solely from memory: I'll check a clock next time), even though it now takes me a solid five to fifteen minutes just to deal with two of them. It's good no monstrous fleet has shown up yet 'cause I'm already starting to stockpile a couple of baddies from previous waves and I think a splurge of goons would mean curtains for my lovely built-from-scratch home Sector.
Shrooblord

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 07:11:22 PM »
Well actually I've been playing a bit and trying to match up my ships to the new strength of the Xsotan and Pirates who are constantly raiding my base, but I find it very hard to fill my ships' System Module slots with anything meaningful. I'm having to throw in five energy upgrades just so I can support one shield and one turret upgrade, for example. Definitely a game changer. But maybe that just means I need to incorporate more energy cores into my design: I'll get back to you on that, too.
In the meantime, maybe consider buffing the nerfs to System Modules back up by a tiny amount, say 5%, and see how that is. I do like that the game is now harder to, er, "game", but I have a tiny gut feeling it's just a little too overboard. What do you think?

Also I think you mentioned that with respect to the enemies now being much, much more powerful, there'd be less frequent attacks, right? I've noticed that they're still dropping in on me around every five to ten, fifteen minutes (hard to gague solely from memory: I'll check a clock next time), even though it now takes me a solid five to fifteen minutes just to deal with two of them. It's good no monstrous fleet has shown up yet 'cause I'm already starting to stockpile a couple of baddies from previous waves and I think a splurge of goons would mean curtains for my lovely built-from-scratch home Sector.

Well I forgot to mention a couple things.

You should try these mods out on Normal or Veteran, because remember Veteran will literally be much harder than vanilla Insane.

Also in regards to the system upgrade mods, yeah the nerfs are harse but intentional. I'm trying to counteract the over-powered shield, generator and turret upgrades but not only nerfing their effectiveness BUT also making their energy requirements higher so that you DO NEED TO DEVOTE MORE SHIP SPACE TO GENERATORS AND ENERGY STORAGE!!!

Convert some blocks into more generators (which naturally reduces your ability to have a gazillion shields) and also I intend for you to be at or near the max required energy and then dip into your batteries when you're boosting or fighting. Then during "downtimes" you'll be recharging your abundant energy stores. As it is now, I don't think most people if any even use energy storage blocks or battery upgrades because the vanilla upgrade energy requirements are way WAY too low and trivial...like .45 GW for a legendary upgrade?!?! Nahhh.

And BOTH shield upgrades now use a harse PERCENT-BASED system because my intent is for players to only be able to equip 1 to 2 MAX shield upgrades.

And the high turret energy requirements and Artifacts mod, again is an attempt to limit the ridiculously high amount of turrets you can equip with essentially 0 downside. The artifacts alone on vanilla were +5 x 8 turrets for ZERO energy...that's just totally imbalanced.

So, yeah, I'd say you should devote a lot more ship blocks to energy generators and storage and get accustomed to using batteries on a more regular basis and not as an emergency only.

LASTLY, if you're on an existing galaxy (change the difficulty in the server.ini btw) then any sectors that you've been too will still have been generated with the pre-modded alliance ships/stations size but pirates/xsotan will be the new harder versions.

If you want the one thing that works to do a full "refresh" of your galaxy is to...

FIRST BACKUP YOUR GALAXY IN .../AppData/Roaming/Avorion/galaxies... Just copy and/or zip a copy of the galaxy as it is.

THEN delete the "sectors" folder inside the galaxy folder. This will delete all the generated sectors. They'll still show up on your map and if you go back they'll still generate exactly like before, just with the higher hull sizes/dps and trade goods volumes etc.... The only small bug is a few of your wormholes you've found MAY disappear when you go back to them but it's usually a small amount of them.

Thanks for the feedback. Try my ideas about more generator blocks and batteries and see what you think. Maybe use a lower tier turret upgrade until you get a bigger ship. But I can always tweak these...Shield upgrades though are the KEY change. They will and should remain % based to stop you stacking multiple upgrades to get 5-10 million shields easily.

Thanks.

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 12:56:25 PM »
Oh, yeah, I noticed most of the things you've mentioned. I was just wondering whether a 80% nerf (not sure how much you nerfed) is a little excessive when 75% nerf would do, but that's just my two cents.

Moreover, the Legendary +5 all turrets System Module Slot now requires 78 GW or something like that, which is 60% of what I already currently produce, while the "parasitic" and "harsh" shield upgrades require a percentage of what I already produce, which ends up being more favourable in my case.

So while I haven't yet upgraded my ship with Generators (and now, can't do for a long time still until I rebuild because of the aforementioned Xsotan "whale slap" wrecking my capital ship lol), using the "vanilla approach" still with my ship, the % Sytem Modules are actually in my favour rather than the flat 78 GW-costing ones.

If that's how you wanted it balanced, that's cool. This is simply a situation report. ;)
Shrooblord

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 07:46:16 PM »
Just played around some more. I think the Hyperspace System Modules are too costly in energy now. It takes 40 GW of energy for a simple green Hyperspace System Module upgrade. 40 GW isn't hard to produce if all you fly is a capital ship, but in the wake of mine being destroyed, I've been zooming around the galaxy in a tiddly little ferrari-like ship that is mostly just fast, agile and small. However, this means I can never produce the kind of power requirements to install even a basic Hyperspace System Module that isn't trash tier, which means I have to wait 20 seconds after each hyperspace jump.

I suggest making the Hyperspace System Module less costly in energy requirements than it is currently. Strike a balance between disallowing OP carrier dreadnoughts but also allow smaller ships to use the System Modules effectively.
Shrooblord

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack - Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 07:57:48 PM »
Just played around some more. I think the Hyperspace System Modules are too costly in energy now. It takes 40 GW of energy for a simple green Hyperspace System Module upgrade. 40 GW isn't hard to produce if all you fly is a capital ship, but in the wake of mine being destroyed, I've been zooming around the galaxy in a tiddly little ferrari-like ship that is mostly just fast, agile and small. However, this means I can never produce the kind of power requirements to install even a basic Hyperspace System Module that isn't trash tier, which means I have to wait 20 seconds after each hyperspace jump.

I suggest making the Hyperspace System Module less costly in energy requirements than it is currently. Strike a balance between disallowing OP carrier dreadnoughts but also allow smaller ships to use the System Modules effectively.

If you notice the Hyperspace Upgrades WITH cooldown are very costly, the others aren't. I intended that to be the case and again I want people to have to sacrifice shield generator blocks and others for more energy generators in their ship.

But I will look into lowering it a bit. However I'm also thinking of slightly raising the high tier military and arbitrary turret upgrades even more. I want you to be restricted to only using a certain amount unless you have a big ship. The orange and purple ones with +4-6 turrets should be very costly IMO.

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 08:29:35 PM »
I agree to the Turrets part, but I think the Hyperspace Engine System Module is one that all ships of all sizes should be able to benefit from, large or small. I understand the concerns about wanting players to put in more energy blocks, but we're talking energy modules here the size of twice my ship's size to be able to support an upgrade with even a 10% cooldown. That's a little intense :P
Shrooblord

tchavre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01b: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2018, 01:23:26 AM »
hello
i don t fond to delete a wrong message
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 01:32:25 AM by tchavre »

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01c: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2018, 11:03:46 PM »
New Version: 0.15.7.01c

Updated Economy Mod and Modpack - Lowered the volume of goods back down to a more reasonable level. They're still much higher than normal to stop economy-breaking profits from raiding, but I definitely went overboard in the first iteration. ;)

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01c: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2018, 06:57:40 AM »
I wonder what are your thoughts on the lowest, trash-tier System Module Upgrades? As it stands, even the Petty level SMUs are unusable by basic ships that already cost in excess of 10K resources because of all the energy blocks. Is that overkill, or what you wanted?

Personally I'd think a balance that follows more of a sigmoid or exponential function might work a little better, so tiny ships can still benefit from SMUs. In my opinion, Petty and Common SMUs should be useful still, but I'm hard-pressed for use cases if I need to generate 10-25 GW on a tiny < 100 m ship only to get a little Velocity, Hyperspace Cooldown or Sector Sensor SMU.

Oh, yeah, on that Sector Sensor: Legendary tier costs 85 GW to operate, even though Legendary and Exceptional tiers for that SMU specifically make no difference at all (vanilla behaviour - for some reason this is true). Furthermore, 85 GW for a Sensor is a bit crazy if you ask me, but I don't know how easy it is to tweak individual SMUs, or that the balancing change is system-wide.

Also, feel free to tell me to stop with the feedback if it's getting stale. Just voicing my concerns and opinion. And don't let the constant stream of feedback fool you: I love your balance changes. They're killer. They could just use a little tweaking here and there.
Shrooblord

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01c: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2018, 01:53:05 AM »
I wonder what are your thoughts on the lowest, trash-tier System Module Upgrades? As it stands, even the Petty level SMUs are unusable by basic ships that already cost in excess of 10K resources because of all the energy blocks. Is that overkill, or what you wanted?

...

No dude it's all good. I appreciate the feedback. I just want to actually play the game a bit too at this point and it doesn't seem like many other people are even really interested in these mods much either.

I thought I'd get more responses but aside from you and a couple others there's not that much interest. I honestly think the game is not getting much interest either at this point and I'm fearing the worst. Very little news from the devs and these things I'm trying to mod are also VERY simple things that should have been balanced and addressed months and months ago. So I'm not sure what the future for this game holds but I hope things start to progress more positively.

I'll keep working on my mods as best I can but you should definitely keep giving feedback and maybe even try to make your own mods as well bud.

Thanks.

Shrooblord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01d: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2018, 02:34:24 AM »
:>

That's the spirit!

Don't be disheartened; people like you and I will make this a great game, yet. ;)
I'm hoping the developers' silence towards the public is just them preparing some massive cool update news... or keeping it hush hush so they can spring something fun on us. If not, that's their decision of course, although I find it sad to see a community lose faith in devs because they're not communicating as much as the community would enjoy.

I know that behind the scenes they're still working busy busy and they do respond on some channels; I've been in contact regarding the Dutch translations and that was all rather quick correspondence, had my SPAMbox not flagged their mails and hidden them from me, lol stupid e-mail client

Anyway, yeah! Keep modding; I enjoy these DarkSoulsian balance tweaks to the game. And prepare yourself... I'm getting quite a good start into my very first own mod of anything ever! woo
It's gonna be a fun one. ;)
Shrooblord

Wayleran

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Modpack 0.15.7.01d: Balancing & Difficulty Mods *NEW*
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2018, 03:00:21 AM »
Thanks for the pep talk Shroob! :)