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Author Topic: [MOD] Galaxy Mod - Systems: Balance & Difficulty Mods  (Read 556 times)

Wayleran

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[MOD] Galaxy Mod - Systems: Balance & Difficulty Mods
« on: January 09, 2018, 03:32:33 AM »
Please visit my Galaxy Modpack page to download this OR any of my other mods or to ask questions and leave feedback. I will no longer be updating this page but the mod and any new versions will be available there.

Thanks,
Wayleran


Galaxy Mod - Systems
System upgrades have been balanced to be less over-powered and require a more reasonable amount of energy.
These changes DRASTICALLY improve the overall challenge of the game by requiring players to be smarter with their upgrades and use more of the game mechanics, such as batteries, etc...

The three main adjustments were to the Generator, Shield and Turret upgrades.

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Arbitrary Turrets
    - Increased the energy requirements of these systems

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Civil Turrets
    - Increased the energy requirements of these systems

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Military Turrets
    - Increased the energy requirements of these systems

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Energy Booster
    - Reduced the effectiveness of these systems by 50%

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Energy to Shield Converter
    - Reduced the effectiveness of these systems by 50% (more powerful than the Shield Booster)
    - Increased the energy requirements of these systems

Galaxy Mod - Systems - Shield Booster
    - Reduced the effectiveness of these systems by 60% (due to the other bonuses of this upgrade)
    - Increased the energy requirements of these systems
    - Converted the energy usage to a % based format to balance this with the other shield upgrade


Click here to download!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 10:46:17 AM by Wayleran »

Blaine

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 11:13:41 AM »
One major problem I see is that your low end is way too low. 5-10% bonus shields with steep downsides is basically an extremely marginal system module that no one will use, i.e. a useless mod. Players could slot a turret mod and more gunners instead, pack more weapons, and kill enemies much more quickly.

In other words, you nerfed them too hard. It's important to think not only of Exceptional and Legendary mods, but also of whites and greens. I'd say start them at 20-25%, and finish up around 50-60%; this applies to energy mods as well (the main stat, not the bonus[es]). That would still slash their power roughly in half, without rendering them a near-waste of a slot.

Hellatze

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 01:21:08 PM »
what ?

just nerf the hell system will make changes ?

why bother using that system again ?

in the end we use full turret system in the end.

this is pointless.

i expecting creating new system after you nerf the current system.


Hellatze

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 01:22:31 PM »
what ?

just nerf the hell system will make changes ?

why bother using that system again ?

in the end we use full turret system in the end.

this is pointless.

i expecting creating new system after you nerf the current system.

your mod nothing more to nerf everything.

Blaine

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 03:05:00 PM »
It's a mod, man. It's optional.

There could be several different variants of the mod: A slight nerf that reduces the mods' power by 25%; a middling variant that reduces it by 50%; and the hardcore variant that reduces it by about 75% (the author's preferred version).

I'm just thinking of maximizing the number of people who'll download and enjoy the mod.

Wayleran

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 07:49:37 PM »
One major problem I see is that your low end is way too low. 5-10% bonus shields with steep downsides is basically an extremely marginal system module that no one will use, i.e. a useless mod. Players could slot a turret mod and more gunners instead, pack more weapons, and kill enemies much more quickly.

In other words, you nerfed them too hard. It's important to think not only of Exceptional and Legendary mods, but also of whites and greens. I'd say start them at 20-25%, and finish up around 50-60%; this applies to energy mods as well (the main stat, not the bonus[es]). That would still slash their power roughly in half, without rendering them a near-waste of a slot.

Thanks for that great feedback Blaine. I did probably hit them too hard but keep in mind that it's a fine-tuning process right now.

And in regards to the shield nerfs...THAT one actually is intentional. There are two shield upgrades in the game currently. "Shield Booster" gives 100%+ with literally NO downside because the energy requirements are way too low and the other, the more balanced one, is a % to % "re-route" of energy to shields. This one SHOULD and according to the comments even in the devs scripting, it appears THIS one is the one that should affect shield durability and the "Shield Booster" should be for shield regeneration and the KEY thing is that "on depletion: recharges 25% of your shields" once every 5 mins. So you should only use 1 of those and the "Energy to Shield Converter" with it's balanced % to % approach IS your option for increasing overall shields.

Also I've reworked mostly ALL the systems as of today to at least have more balanced energy requirements. I mean as it is in vanilla your energy concerns and upgrade usage is never a problem. You slap in a bunch of generator blocks and never need to worry.

I'm trying to eliminate this problem by making systems more costly and balanced and this will bring into play having to sacrifice ship area to MORE generator blocks and also upgrade slots can't ALL be +5 turrets anymore giving the player OP firepower or even 1 generator upgrade that's ~100% and 1 shield booster that's ~100% with trivial energy costs.

I want to make it were if you want to be "tanky" you'll need to sacrifice upgrade slots to multiple "Energy to Shield Converters" that each have % based costs and less turrets/firepower....OR if you want more firepower than you shouldn't ALSO have ridiculous shield capabilities too....

And finally I want to bring the use of Energy Storage blocks and Battery Upgrades into play. As it currently stands there's really no need for either because keeping your required energy to about 25% at all times is easy to do. I want your required energy to be near full capacity and those "downtimes" when you're not boosting/fighting/jumping to be times where your replenishing your reserves into your massive battery backup. It will add a new element to gameplay.


I'm reworking these a lot and stay tuned for a new version that should be up today with more changes and I'll perhaps scale the nerfs down a bit, but probably not on the generator and "shield booster" because like I said with that one, that's not the one that should be intended for increasing shield durability or else why even have the "energy to shield converters" in the game and have them be so much better balanced? But again thanks for the feedback.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:00:32 PM by Wayleran »

Wayleran

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 07:56:34 PM »
what ?

just nerf the hell system will make changes ?

why bother using that system again ?

in the end we use full turret system in the end.

this is pointless.

i expecting creating new system after you nerf the current system.

Hellatze, bud...

I appreciate you trying out all my mods but this is the 3rd seperate occasion where you've harshly criticized them and also misunderstood them quite a bit. You also totally missed the point about this being a "Work-In-Progress" and that I'm looking for constructive criticism not just flippant responses and DEMANDS to fix this or that and "i expecting creating new system after you nerf the current system."

I'm happy to make multiple versions for people to test out and try to make everyone happy, but like Blaine said, these are not MANDATORY to use and if you don't like my work please be positive and let me know and I'll work with you.

I've posted a "recovery file" for you in a reply to ANOTHER similar comment you posted in my MOD PACK post here:

http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,4375.0.html


Just work with me here buddy. All I want to do is add options for people who want a bit more challenge.

Thanks,

Wayleran

Ravien

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 08:36:44 AM »
Thanks for all of this! Definitely going to keep an eye on these mods when I start a new game!

Shrooblord

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 05:01:26 PM »
This is a cool idea. I like it when the game kicks my ass (recently was caught with my pants down when transferring my fighters to another craft and having lowered shield, bam, full Xsotan fleet on my two ships in Build Mode; boom boom, wrecked haha).

However, have you tested how this affects AI ships? Do they become unbalanced / unstable because the ship-generating algorithm isn't expecting these nerfs? I'd like some insight on your part into how you think this will affect enemy balancing, too, because if the player gets nerfed, but so does the enemy, then we're basically still playing the same game with different numbers: since players know they can whack in more generators, they can work around this, but I'm guessing the AI doesn't know this. But maybe I'm not giving the ship generator enough credit. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to know. ^^
Shrooblord

Wayleran

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 03:20:59 AM »
Thanks for all of this! Definitely going to keep an eye on these mods when I start a new game!

New modpack went up today with TONS of new stuff. Feels pretty solid now but I'll still need to tweak it and maybe have a couple different versions for people who want these mods but a little less intense challenge.

Anyways, thanks and let me know what you think.

Hellatze

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 01:19:32 PM »
This is a cool idea. I like it when the game kicks my ass (recently was caught with my pants down when transferring my fighters to another craft and having lowered shield, bam, full Xsotan fleet on my two ships in Build Mode; boom boom, wrecked haha).

However, have you tested how this affects AI ships? Do they become unbalanced / unstable because the ship-generating algorithm isn't expecting these nerfs? I'd like some insight on your part into how you think this will affect enemy balancing, too, because if the player gets nerfed, but so does the enemy, then we're basically still playing the same game with different numbers: since players know they can whack in more generators, they can work around this, but I'm guessing the AI doesn't know this. But maybe I'm not giving the ship generator enough credit. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to know. ^^

If you want to play hard like that. Just edit enemy ship have a 1 million omnicron then.

System nerf are unworthy if no special effect, or changes to comply with the nerf (like adding energy req for turret, but actually giving additional firepower).

This mod nothing more than tampering the system.

Wayleran

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 06:52:01 PM »
This is a cool idea. I like it when the game kicks my ass (recently was caught with my pants down when transferring my fighters to another craft and having lowered shield, bam, full Xsotan fleet on my two ships in Build Mode; boom boom, wrecked haha).

However, have you tested how this affects AI ships? Do they become unbalanced / unstable because the ship-generating algorithm isn't expecting these nerfs? I'd like some insight on your part into how you think this will affect enemy balancing, too, because if the player gets nerfed, but so does the enemy, then we're basically still playing the same game with different numbers: since players know they can whack in more generators, they can work around this, but I'm guessing the AI doesn't know this. But maybe I'm not giving the ship generator enough credit. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to know. ^^

If you want to play hard like that. Just edit enemy ship have a 1 million omnicron then.

System nerf are unworthy if no special effect, or changes to comply with the nerf (like adding energy req for turret, but actually giving additional firepower).

This mod nothing more than tampering the system.

Hellatze, please stop using and commenting on my mods. I've been patient with you and your negativity and DEMANDS but a lot of other people have PM'd me about you and told me to just ignore you because you do this all the time.

And you clearly are either just jealous of the work I'm TRYING to do to help out the community OR you simply want to try to ruin other people's experiences with the game.

If you've used my modpack and still don't see a difference then you're either lying or intentionally trying to mislead people. I'm not saying my mods are perfect, but I'm trying to make a more balanced, challenging version of the game for people. And if you've played with my mods on Veteran at least then it's a lot more difficult.

And again, the DEMANDS, are really getting old too. And you've clearly indicated you're using an illegal version of the game because you can't do "Steam authentication", so that's just another reason to dismiss your comments.

Please move on.

Hellatze

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Re: [MOD] Galaxy Mod - Systems - Balance & Difficulty Mod *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 06:54:12 AM »
Whatever.

Just want to help you out with my criticism.

You cant handle it.

Then fine.


However you dont have to create 2 thread.

Ravien

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Re: [MOD] Galaxy Mod - Systems - Balance & Difficulty Mod *NEW* *UPDATED*
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 11:07:37 AM »
Whatever.

Just want to help you out with my criticism.


You didn't offer constructive criticism though. I've read all your posts on his mods and none of them offered any critique of value. Same thing with your posts on the news forum.

Funny thing is when I suggested that there might be a language barrier, you took it as a personal attack, and now you use a personal attack on someone else yourself. Nobody understands where you're coming from because the things you say are so way off base that it's literally like you're playing a different game than the rest of us.

Shrooblord

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Re: [MOD] Systems Mod - Systems Balancing Mod
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 01:05:26 PM »
And you've clearly indicated you're using an illegal version of the game because you can't do "Steam authentication", so that's just another reason to dismiss your comments.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, I think you misunderstand why Hellatze doesn't want to use the Steam Verification of Integrity. If you've read elsewhere on the forum, he's stated dissatisfaction with the game and requests a refund; that is a little atypical of someone who hasn't bought the game.

Most likely, and I can guess at this because this is also my reason for disliking the Verify Integrity option in Steam, is that he's modded the game extensively, and doesn't want to reset all his work modding the vanilla files by getting them replaced by Steam's VI system. That's what happened to my modded files when I was forced to reset because of a corruption I'd caused in my game files, and then I had to afterwards painstakingly go through and re-apply all the mods I'd installed. Not fun.

That said, yes, Hellatze, I agree that you could tone down the aggression just a tad if you please. I like talking to people, and I like helping people, but please stay within reasonable limits of emotional state. Or, if you really are super angry about something, breathe, take a step back, consider whether it really is worth throwing an angry message out onto the public Internet, and if you really think that is the best approach, then go ahead, do it. I can't tell you what to do. But do please consider that what you say has impact on anyone who reads it. It may not be obvious, and they may not even say it, but harmful behaviour is called harmful because it affects those who come in contact with it to be affected in a negative way. Please keep the harmful behaviour to a minimum.

Now that we've all taken a shot at backseat modding I think we should stop. It is not our place to discuss members' behaviour. Although voicing our opinion is fine. Let's not take it too far though.
Shrooblord