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General Discussion / Re: Calling for the death of the RNG god
« Last post by LordMaddog on August 17, 2018, 11:35:17 PM »
There's a few issues.

Much like action RPGs, the game throws a lot of loot at you, most of which becomes increasingly trash as your equipment improves.  In those action RPGs you pick and choose what loot you pick up and eventually you simply stop picking up loot that's undesirable.  This is not the case in Avorion; your inventory gets littered with trash as you kill & salvage.  The trash is not mechanically useless; You use it to make rolls at the research lab to get even more  loot, most of which is still likely to be trash. Unfortunately, this is an enormously attention and click-heavy process for uncertain results; lately i started dreading visiting the research station and now i have mostly stopped.  I have 3000 items and most of them are completely worthless - but there's no fast way to get rid of them, you don't have the option of not picking up them up, and they all have their own individual entry in the items list.    Fixing even one of those issues could make it bearable, but it would be best if the loot mechanics were rethought imo.  There's no need for RNG for most systems, especially the whites, greens, and blues; to the extent that RNG is helpful with them you can make it a different system, or as a loot item with a special verb implied to make it explicitly special.  Pettys should probably be deprecated.

While what you said is true and it definitely would make the game better if it was possible to deal with these loots in a timely matter. It still wouldn't exactly solve the problem.
I have heard many people express that they want to be able to make fleets with all the same stats and same equipment.
This desire among others comes because this is a Building Game not a full on RPG.
Almost 100% of all the other building games I have ever played allow you full control over your weaponry and other systems, this has become the staple of building style games.
This game does not and it has become a stigma against it. And it will always be one until it is fixed.
Now don't get me wrong I do love the RPG parts of this game in fact I would like to increase them because I love RPG's but because this is also a building game as well it has to cohere with building game rules.
If it doesn't  the players will constantly call for it to do so as they have been for over a year on this form and on the steam forms.
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General Discussion / Re: Calling for the death of the RNG god
« Last post by TheDeadlyShoe on August 17, 2018, 09:31:07 PM »
There's a few issues.

Much like action RPGs, the game throws a lot of loot at you, most of which becomes increasingly trash as your equipment improves.  In those action RPGs you pick and choose what loot you pick up and eventually you simply stop picking up loot that's undesirable.  This is not the case in Avorion; your inventory gets littered with trash as you kill & salvage.  The trash is not mechanically useless; You use it to make rolls at the research lab to get even more  loot, most of which is still likely to be trash. Unfortunately, this is an enormously attention and click-heavy process for uncertain results; lately i started dreading visiting the research station and now i have mostly stopped.  I have 3000 items and most of them are completely worthless - but there's no fast way to get rid of them, you don't have the option of not picking up them up, and they all have their own individual entry in the items list.    Fixing even one of those issues could make it bearable, but it would be best if the loot mechanics were rethought imo.  There's no need for RNG for most systems, especially the whites, greens, and blues; to the extent that RNG is helpful with them you can make it a different system, or as a loot item with a special verb implied to make it explicitly special.  Pettys should probably be deprecated.


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Creations / Re: Avorion season 2: Speed Run
« Last post by LordMaddog on August 17, 2018, 04:05:15 PM »
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General Discussion / Re: Calling for the death of the RNG god
« Last post by Ravien on August 17, 2018, 07:44:05 AM »
1.) The first technical issue stems from the fact, that Turrets in particular have thee independent evaluation metrics - a Rarity tier, a Tech level and the Material. While all of them seem to have an effect, nobody really knows how to associate either of them with the turret's power, and as result of current random draws we end up with shitty Legendary and great Iron weapons at the same time . Developer team should get rid of either Tech Level, so that the Material and Rarity could provide an intuitive power ladder, or the Material distinction, which is an arbitrary limitation that produces nothing apart from the confusion.

Some changes are also needed for the player/ship inventory to help manage it - instead of tiny buttons on the turret icons, we should have an ability to hold Shift and Ctrl for continuous and individual selection trough the sorted list and to use separate buttons on the sidebar to Favorite, Brand, Mail or Remove all the selected items.  I personally would also favor an option to toggle into a standard vertical list, instead of a tile layout, with the item icon and the outline of the primary stats (Size, Slots, Tech Level, DPS, Range and Accuracy/Efficiency), which would allow convenient selection and comparison and also being able to use these stats for sorting, rather than just few factors we have now.

2.) The fact about superiority of Factory-made turrets over looted ones was a sore thumb for a quite a while now. I'm continuously arguing for the attention to this problem, and my point still stands: Turret Factories should only be able to produce Common-grade turrets, and players can improve that by providing the given faction with Technological commodities, which are consumed by Research Labs and improve the capability up to the Exotic (Or even up to Rare) tier and improve the quality of weapons that are equipped on that faction's ships. Turret Factories mainly should be used to create turret Blueprints, that can be placed into stations to reproduce them. This will put the value of looted and researched turrets where it belongs.

Research Lab should output the turrets based on their own average tech level, regardless of its position in the galaxy.

3.) Algorithm for generation of entities has to be expanded upon eventually, before Avorion gets officially released. It has to strictly avoid generating blocks below a certain margin in size, which only inflate the block count without producing any significant stats and are extremely hard to salvage, resulting in the excess of dropped loot items. All types of edge blocks should be used to shape the entity segments, and there are great number of possible variations for the generator to pick. Generator seed must not produce enormous 3-4 kilometer long metal sticks, but instead follow golden mean rule to avoid absurd ship proportions. As players get closer to the core, ships should feature thicker armor coverage, lower hull/functional block ratio and Integrity fields to keep enemies reasonably difficult across the progression path.

4.) I would like for the Turret Control System modules to have perks for the turret to, but I much more concerned with the current state of balance and mechanics of the particular weapons. Variety of weapons is severely limited by the existence of obvious favorites and ambiguous systems, that render about a half of the weapons and tools useless. Other than that, I'm not in gripes with the RNG as such, as long as it allows the player to manifest upon the lucky find and make practical use of it, instead of choosing between using dozens of completely different turrets and mass-producing superior variants with an abundance of Credits alone...

It feels like the topic drives my thoughts into a kaleidoscope of all the little problems I see within the game, and I've already said plenty, so I rather leave it with that.

Such great points and I agree with much of it. Fix the system, no need to scrap it completely. RNG is an important part of the game.
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General Discussion / Re: Calling for the death of the RNG god
« Last post by DivineEvil on August 17, 2018, 07:21:45 AM »
Quote
Rusty's US server has been up for less than a week and already I have over 50 to 60 pages of worthless loot  99.999%  of it I cannot and will not ever use.
I know some of you are going to say 'well that's just because it's on a modded server.' but I have the same problem on the official test server.
Regardless, it should be noted that the vast majority of modded servers do in fact make it easier for their players to do most things, in particular increase the drop rate, which vastly inflate the number of available turrets and modules, while the game itself is already fairly easy even on the Insane difficulty and should be modded to offer more challenges, promote player cooperation, expand the progression path and make it much harder to sustain the hold in the core region.

Other than that, you bring no analysis of the situation nor feasible solutions. A first suggestion is just solving the headache problem by chopping it off, and the second one has little to do with the original problem. There's certainly an great excess of available stations and factories due to the overblown economy and rather superfluous attachment of the commodities to the production of turrets, and the entity generation algorithm is severely outdated, but these are three completely different issues, that do not relate to the RNG as much as to the unrefined game design decisions.

1.) The first technical issue stems from the fact, that Turrets in particular have thee independent evaluation metrics - a Rarity tier, a Tech level and the Material. While all of them seem to have an effect, nobody really knows how to associate either of them with the turret's power, and as result of current random draws we end up with shitty Legendary and great Iron weapons at the same time . Developer team should get rid of either Tech Level, so that the Material and Rarity could provide an intuitive power ladder, or the Material distinction, which is an arbitrary limitation that produces nothing apart from the confusion.

Some changes are also needed for the player/ship inventory to help manage it - instead of tiny buttons on the turret icons, we should have an ability to hold Shift and Ctrl for continuous and individual selection trough the sorted list and to use separate buttons on the sidebar to Favorite, Brand, Mail or Remove all the selected items.  I personally would also favor an option to toggle into a standard vertical list, instead of a tile layout, with the item icon and the outline of the primary stats (Size, Slots, Tech Level, DPS, Range and Accuracy/Efficiency), which would allow convenient selection and comparison and also being able to use these stats for sorting, rather than just few factors we have now.

2.) The fact about superiority of Factory-made turrets over looted ones was a sore thumb for a quite a while now. I'm continuously arguing for the attention to this problem, and my point still stands: Turret Factories should only be able to produce Common-grade turrets, and players can improve that by providing the given faction with Technological commodities, which are consumed by Research Labs and improve the capability up to the Exotic (Or even up to Rare) tier and improve the quality of weapons that are equipped on that faction's ships. Turret Factories mainly should be used to create turret Blueprints, that can be placed into stations to reproduce them. This will put the value of looted and researched turrets where it belongs.

Research Lab should output the turrets based on their own average tech level, regardless of its position in the galaxy.

3.) Algorithm for generation of entities has to be expanded upon eventually, before Avorion gets officially released. It has to strictly avoid generating blocks below a certain margin in size, which only inflate the block count without producing any significant stats and are extremely hard to salvage, resulting in the excess of dropped loot items. All types of edge blocks should be used to shape the entity segments, and there are great number of possible variations for the generator to pick. Generator seed must not produce enormous 3-4 kilometer long metal sticks, but instead follow golden mean rule to avoid absurd ship proportions. As players get closer to the core, ships should feature thicker armor coverage, lower hull/functional block ratio and Integrity fields to keep enemies reasonably difficult across the progression path.

4.) I would like for the Turret Control System modules to have perks for the turret to, but I much more concerned with the current state of balance and mechanics of the particular weapons. Variety of weapons is severely limited by the existence of obvious favorites and ambiguous systems, that render about a half of the weapons and tools useless. Other than that, I'm not in gripes with the RNG as such, as long as it allows the player to manifest upon the lucky find and make practical use of it, instead of choosing between using dozens of completely different turrets and mass-producing superior variants with an abundance of Credits alone...

It feels like the topic drives my thoughts into a kaleidoscope of all the little problems I see within the game, and I've already said plenty, so I rather leave it with that.
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Decided to add some server-side features as well, since it's all in the same file :) You still can install this mod on client-side only if you want.

1.3.0
  • Added: A way to change max transfer distance for crew, cargo and fighters via config (if mod is installed server-side)
  • Added: If you're transfer goods to/from station you should now be docked instead of being really close. You can toggle default behaviour on in config (if mod is installed server-side)
  • Added: Partial Deutsch and French translation
  • Fixed: Minor fixes
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Bugs / [Graphical] AI ships not displaying engine trails
« Last post by asauhdf on August 17, 2018, 12:00:27 AM »
The title explains it, i think
Engine trails aren't being displayed for AI ships, or they're woefully small
It's only really noticeable for me because my engines are designed to highlight and complement the engine trail. The lack of a trail thus makes it look ... strange
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Mods / Re: [MOD] Salvager/Miner range and auto turrets
« Last post by slater124 on August 16, 2018, 09:30:11 PM »
I know i am Necroing this thread. But adding it EXACTLY as posted. Using Notepad ++. It causes ANYTHING new in sectors to NOT generate/Appear..

Please advise.

Vanilla game.

NON-Beta.

Edit. Fixed..

I modified the code slightly. Was missing a Dash.. Somehow.
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Creations / Re: Avorion season 2: Speed Run
« Last post by LordMaddog on August 16, 2018, 05:52:51 PM »
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General Discussion / Re: Calling for the death of the RNG god
« Last post by LordMaddog on August 16, 2018, 04:55:29 PM »

Although i do agree that there's a problem with this, i do not like your idea's, save for 2, wich is practically the complex mod. It would be nice if you could make new factorys on a station, perhaps this could follow the slot system: a station can have more weapons the bugger it gets, with additional factorys for every additional upgrade slot you get.

Buying maps ruins the need for exploration and 1 i just dont like, so i only agree with 2 :/

I understand you not liking my ideas I could try to defended them  but they are not ideal for me either truth be told I would like all weapons to use energy,  the slot systme removed and the cost of generators  increased by ten times (resource and credit cost).

The complex mod, is to complicated IMO it would be so much simpler and easier  to just make one new block "The factory block"  you click on it a UI comes up and you select the factory/utility type then you place it.
The cost and min size of block is determined by the type of factory/utility.
you could even incorporate  how the assembly block works into it. IE: the material type and  block size  determines  the productivity of "The factory block"
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