Author Topic: [MOD PACK] Galaxy Mods: Balance & Difficulty Mods  (Read 25404 times)

Wayleran

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on: January 22, 2018, 11:45:23 PM
This is because the "Booster" upgrade also gives you shield recharge AND the crucial "upon depletion: recharge 25% of your shields once every 5 mins"...
Funny thing is, not sure if you've noticed, that not all Shield Booster SMUs have this recharge upon depletion trait. It seems to be random whether they do or not. Is there a way for you to balance all Shield Boosters with this in mind? Can you read whether a specific SMU has the recharge bonus, and penalise / balance out Energy Requirements based on that, or do you have to hit all Shield Boosters with a nerf? Mostly asking because I'm curious.

In an older version I did just that, all "Booster" had both and a higher likelihood of having  the "depletion" bonus...

So I will do that. I'll ensure that ALL Shield Boosters have BOTH Durability (at around 75% less than normal) and Recharge at the normal levels but leave the "depletion" bonus as is in terms of RNG chances to spawn on an item, because it's pretty high with blues or above anyways...

So a "great" purple Shield Booster would be roughly:
Shield Durability           +20-25%
Shield Recharge Rate    +40-50%

Generated Energy         -10-12.5% (half Shield Durability amount)

"Upon depletion: Recharges 25% of your shield" chance to spawn on item based on higher rarity as it is in vanilla. 100% on purples, 75% on orange, etc...


And a "great" purple Energy to Shield Converter would be roughly:
Shield Durability           +50-70%
Generated Energy         -25-35% (half Shield Durability amount)

With these numbers a normal player can and should be able to equip one of each for a total of about 80% Shield Durability, 45% Shield Recharge Rate and get the "Upon depletion" bonus for a total of around -40% cost to Generated Energy...

I think that's a great compromise and allows people to have 2 distinctly different shield upgrades equipped without getting +100%-500% to shields, like is capable in vanilla with multiple upgrades equipped.

The Teleporter Key 5 I reworked will be adjusted to a 60%/-30% Energy to Shield Converter to compensate and is essentially a nearly perfect purple.

I also reworked the Artifacts now to be REALLY useful even if you get a good purple "counterpart" to them, because of their new energy costs, or lack thereof, AND their unique "hybrid" stats.

I'll keep you all posted but it's about done now, I just need to test out the changes first.



Wayleran

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on: January 23, 2018, 03:13:22 AM
Update 1/22/2018: Version 0.15.7.4
    - Both shield upgrades have been reworked to offer DISTINCTLY different benefits so a player will likely want to have at least 1 of each equipped.
    - Shield Boosters now require less energy but also have less "Shield Durability" and always have "Shield Recharge Rate" with the possibility of the crucially important "Upon depletion: Recharges 25% of your shield." bonus!
    - Energy to Shield Converter upgrades are now THE way to get higher end "Shield Durability" benefits. In vanilla they offered little benefit over the Shield Boosters, but now both are different and work well together.
    - Turret upgrades have been reworked to require slightly less energy, but are still costly at higher rarities to balance out end game dps potential.
    - Alien Artifacts now have no energy costs, except for the turret and shield related ones.
    - Added "+2 unarmed" to Artifact IV so it's now +5 armed, +2 unarmed. This change was to keep it valuable even compared to a normal "+5 turret" counterpart.
    - Artifact V is now a +60%/-35% Energy to Shield Converter which is slightly more energy efficient than a normal legendary upgrade with that Shield Durability bonus.
    - Some Pirate and Xsotan ships seemed to be a bit TOO big and fights were slightly more tedious than they were fun. So some of those ship's volumes were modified slightly to still offer longer encounters and challenge while not being too "grindy".
    - Slightly increased the volume of spawned "traders" in the "Trader Attack" and "Convoi Distress Signal" events so they were able to survive a bit longer and give players time to "save" them. Also the spawned trader ship in the Trader Attack event will spawn more towards the center of the sector with the pirates usually trailing behind "on their tails" so it will be easier for players (and even alliance ships) to come to the rescue instead of having to fly too far out first.



Avorimon

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on: January 23, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Hey Wayleran,

Very nice ModPack. I haven't played vanilla a lot so i don't know if i'm aware of what all your changes actually mean but i like the spirit.

First off: I liked the Economy Mod, i think im playing 0.15.7.2a where it was still included. If i understand correctly the volumes for goods are higher in this version than in vanilla. Which forced me to build a bigger cargo transporter and that felt pretty cool.

I felt salvaging got a lot more profitable, not credit-wise but since all ships are stronger (they are, aren't they?) the wreckages have much more ress. But again, only been playing this game for a week or so..

Also, do your mods turn the Xsotan automatically into enemies?



Wayleran

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on: January 23, 2018, 04:10:12 AM
Hey Wayleran,

Very nice ModPack. I haven't played vanilla a lot so i don't know if i'm aware of what all your changes actually mean but i like the spirit.

First off: I liked the Economy Mod, i think im playing 0.15.7.2a where it was still included. If i understand correctly the volumes for goods are higher in this version than in vanilla. Which forced me to build a bigger cargo transporter and that felt pretty cool.

I felt salvaging got a lot more profitable, not credit-wise but since all ships are stronger (they are, aren't they?) the wreckages have much more ress. But again, only been playing this game for a week or so..

Also, do your mods turn the Xsotan automatically into enemies?

Hey bud. Welcome to the game and the forums and thanks for the kind words.

I decided to abandon the economy mod because, as I stated earlier, the effect on the overall game wasn't that noticeable and/or positive. Also you really NEED those extra credits AND goods to get heavily into station and sector building, so ultimately I felt the changes were unwarranted.

As far as the Xsotan, no my mods don't automatically turn them into enemies. They always appear first as "neutral" upon entering the sector than get hostile on their own. The dev felt like that reflects their mysterious, unknown nature but of course after you first run into them, they're no longer really "unknown", right?! LOL

I did change their names to what I think are cooler sounding names like "Xsotan Hunter/Reaver/Dreadnought/Mothership" instead of the default "Small/Big Unknown Ship". That's just a cosmetic change however but I think it's cool.  8)

My mod does make them BIGGER and STRONGER though. In vanilla Xsotan ships are meant to spawn as 0.5x the volume of an average ship and 0.75x the dps...

I felt that they shouldn't be measly little ships with low dps, so I simply changed those calculations to both be essentially 1x to an average ship in the sector. Now during an "Alien Attack" the Hunters are 1x, the Reavers are 2x, the Dreadnought is 3x and the Mothership is 5x... but I'm still testing out those numbers because too small and you cut through them like butter and too BIG and the fights can drag on and become tedious.

The newest version though is 0.15.7.4 that I just posted and is MUCH better IMHO than those older ones. Combat/Events and the Systems mainly are much more fun and balanced. So I'd recommend you update to that mod and check back often too. I'd do a full reinstall of Avorion so you're modding a "fresh" set of scripts to undo any old/obsolete mods that may still be in there. But let me know what you think and thanks for the feedback.

P.S. - You won't lose your ships or galaxies by uninstalling and reinstalling Avorion but since I changed a lot of the systems mods and no longer have modded versions of the non-combat related systems, it's just a good idea to go back to vanilla first then re-mod.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:15:02 AM by Wayleran »



Wayleran

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on: January 23, 2018, 06:28:00 AM
Hey Wayleran,

First off: I liked the Economy Mod...

Well, since I don't need to totally abandon it, I posted a standalone version of it in it's own post. This is a NEW version of it also that's much more reasonable. I only modified a selection of highly priced goods by 2x-3x max. This will curb some of the raiding profits you'll receive and make trading a bit more challenging but not really affect anything in a negative way I think.

You can find that post here: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php?topic=4408.msg23351#msg23351

For instance, things like Body Armors went from about 1.5 to 4.5 and War Robots went from about 8 to 24 just as a couple of examples. But those things are also of lower importance too. If something was highly priced AND had high importance, I either left it alone or modified it very slightly (less than 2x).

See how this feels and tell me what you think.

I am however working on, what I feel, is an EVEN BETTER SOLUTION! I'm going to look into making ALL items that come from destroyed cargo vessels and stations be marked as "Stolen". This will mean you'll HAVE to either sell them to a Smuggler Hideout for 25% of their value OR debrand them for 50% of their value, essentially cutting the profits down by 50%...

This I think may be a more elegant solution if I can do it. You'll still get all the goods you would have but you'll have to decide whether to sell them stolen for a substantial discount OR debrand them to use for yourself or resell to another station.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 06:35:06 AM by Wayleran »



Wayleran

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on: January 23, 2018, 08:42:31 AM
I discovered that as far as freighter ships are concerned they spawn with 500 goods for events like trader attacks, etc...

So I'm thinking of adjusting that number because it literally seems to have no relation to volumes. So it will spawn with 500 volume 1 items OR 500 volume 20 items. It's the last function in shiputility.lua. I'm going to test out changing it to 100 instead of 500. This is a better way to do it though for these ships at least because it doesn't involve changing individual goods' volumes which can get messy.

I'll test it out and see, and if anyone else wants to test it out either change shiputility.lua:

line 288:    entity:addCargo(g:good(), 500)

from 500 to whatever or just PM me and I'll send you the modded file, but it's easy to just play around with that 1 line to see for yourself.



Shrooblord

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on: January 23, 2018, 02:51:48 PM
Oh geebus Wayleran I've still got my WINRAR window open for trying to install 15.7.3 and already a new version is out. xD
Can we get auto-updates to mods already? :P

So I will do that. I'll ensure that ALL Shield Boosters have BOTH Durability (at around 75% less than normal) and Recharge at the normal levels but leave the "depletion" bonus as is in terms of RNG chances to spawn on an item, because it's pretty high with blues or above anyways...

So a "great" purple Shield Booster would be roughly:
Shield Durability           +20-25%
Shield Recharge Rate    +40-50%

Generated Energy         -10-12.5% (half Shield Durability amount)

"Upon depletion: Recharges 25% of your shield" chance to spawn on item based on higher rarity as it is in vanilla. 100% on purples, 75% on orange, etc...
Oh, I see. So the penalty to Generated Energy is completely independent from whether or not the SMU has a "upon depletion" effect. Cool.

- Alien Artifacts now have no energy costs, except for the turret and shield related ones.
Oh? Intriguing. I wonder, what made you go for a change of direction from your parasitic upgrades viewpoint?

- Some Pirate and Xsotan ships seemed to be a bit TOO big and fights were slightly more tedious than they were fun. So some of those ship's volumes were modified slightly to still offer longer encounters and challenge while not being too "grindy".
Thanks! I was starting to notice the grind, myself. You're quick on the draw!

As far as the Xsotan, no my mods don't automatically turn them into enemies. They always appear first as "neutral" upon entering the sector than get hostile on their own.
Actually, no! They remain neutral to you, the player, as long as you never fire a weapon in their general direction, or a mining laser on a Resource Asteroid while they're around. They'll always target NPCs first, and they'll leave your entire Sector worth of player ships alone if you don't provoke them yourself. Source: my very bustling player-made Sector filled with 18 of my ships and constantly abuzz with 10 Trader NPCs.

Hey Wayleran,

First off: I liked the Economy Mod...

Well, since I don't need to totally abandon it, I posted a standalone version of it in it's own post. This is a NEW version of it also that's much more reasonable. I only modified a selection of highly priced goods by 2x-3x max. This will curb some of the raiding profits you'll receive and make trading a bit more challenging but not really affect anything in a negative way I think.
Yey! I missed the Economy Balancing part of this modpack. :>

So I'm thinking of adjusting that number because it literally seems to have no relation to volumes. So it will spawn with 500 volume 1 items OR 500 volume 20 items. It's the last function in shiputility.lua. I'm going to test out changing it to 100 instead of 500. This is a better way to do it though for these ships at least because it doesn't involve changing individual goods' volumes which can get messy.
Interesting. I'd like to see some more randomisation in this field, actually. Everything in this game is randomised, so why not also the amount of contents in a Trader's vessel?

----

I'm glad to see your "pendulum swing" approach to balancing working out for you: harsh nerfs followed by slightly less intense buffs followed by more refined nerfs followed by a minor buff. It's basically the binary-search way of approaching balancing, trying to hit the sweet spot just right by first starting with bounding leaps and progressively hopping closer to the bulls-eye with increasingly more elegant strides. Keep up the good work!

P.S.
Not sure if you've noticed, but this forum has a nice automatic list function BBCode, in case you don't want to manually type in the four spaces and hypens deal. Your choice of course; just letting you know.
Shrooblord



Wayleran

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on: January 23, 2018, 10:09:38 PM
Oh? Intriguing. I wonder, what made you go for a change of direction from your parasitic upgrades viewpoint?

Because of my total change towards the "non-combat" upgrades in general. If it doesn't impact combat (Shields, Turrets and to a lesser extent Generator Upgrades) than I don't see the need to punish people for using "utility" upgrades like battery, radar, hyperspace, etc...

My main philosophy is to somewhat limit a player's ability to just stack shield and turret upgrades with nearly zero downside and be overwhelming tanky AND have high dps. Now you can still have 2-3 shield upgrades but it'll cost you a lot of energy and you'll need more generator blocks to compensate and also you can have multiple high end turret upgrades but, again, it's a decision you'll have to make and sacrifice resources in your ship for more energy blocks.


Quote
- Some Pirate and Xsotan ships seemed to be a bit TOO big and fights were slightly more tedious than they were fun. So some of those ship's volumes were modified slightly to still offer longer encounters and challenge while not being too "grindy".
Thanks! I was starting to notice the grind, myself. You're quick on the draw!

Yeah it still may need further tweaking because me and my buddy haven't gotten into the core yet on my unofficial "real world scenario" testing server. LOL


Quote
I'm glad to see your "pendulum swing" approach to balancing working out for you: harsh nerfs followed by slightly less intense buffs followed by more refined nerfs followed by a minor buff. It's basically the binary-search way of approaching balancing, trying to hit the sweet spot just right by first starting with bounding leaps and progressively hopping closer to the bulls-eye with increasingly more elegant strides. Keep up the good work

Thanks bud but I think I need to just reverse the process. Start softer and slowly increase the mods, as opposed to the other way around. Because I don't want new people to try out the mods and be discouraged if I made them a bit on the difficult end. I can always buff mods as easily as nerf them.  ;)



Ravien

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on: January 24, 2018, 02:35:00 PM
I'm not sure if your mod is the cause, but I had a "massive" alien attack warning but only 4 alien ships showed up. I know in the past there would be a whole fleet of like a dozen ships.

I hadn't played in awhile so forgive me if that is a change in the base game since I last played a lot.



Shrooblord

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on: January 24, 2018, 04:03:16 PM
Yes, that's due to this mod. I think the "severity" of the ambush, the thing that tells you whether it's a tiny fleet or an armada, is determined by some "attack points" pool. That is to say, say that an easy encounter has 100 omicron to divide amongst enemies, and a hard encounter has 1000 omicron. In vanilla, enemies were weaker, so both scenarios would produce far more ships than if you have this mod installed. With this mod, the 1000 omicron are more quickly "used up" by the more powerful enemies spawning. Does that illustrate the mechanic behind the spawning in an understandable way?

I believe that in reality there is also a "hull points pool" together with the "attack points pool", which could help explain how that "pool" is exhausted sooner, since this mod massively amplifies enemy hull sizes.

I will agree that seeing a message like "omigod you're gonna get rekt by an entire armada" will initially make you raise an eyebrow if that "armada" turns out to be four ships instead of nine.
Shrooblord



Wayleran

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on: January 24, 2018, 10:33:59 PM
I'm not sure if your mod is the cause, but I had a "massive" alien attack warning but only 4 alien ships showed up. I know in the past there would be a whole fleet of like a dozen ships.

I hadn't played in awhile so forgive me if that is a change in the base game since I last played a lot.

Yeah it's the mod but I not only renamed and resized the Xsotan ships, I also adjusted the number of them slightly to compensate for the increase in both enemy ship's hull and dps. However in the newest version I've adjusted the amount of ships that arrive for some events. It's still 4 for the "massive" attack but one of them is a "Dreadnought" that doesn't even exist in vanilla. And the "entire fleet" attack now has 5 ships including a "Xsotan Mothership" which also doesn't exist in vanilla.

And if you pay close attention to the wording of that 2nd (of the 3) notifications, it will hint at what level of encounter is about to occur.

They breakdown as:

Level 1: 3 Xsotan Hunters (small)
Level 2: 2 Xsotan Hunters and a Reaver (large)
Level 3: 2 Xsotan Hunters, a Reaver and a Dreadnought (massive)
Level 4: 2 Xsotan Hunters, a Reaver, a Dreadnought and a Mothership (entire fleet)


Version 0.15.7.5 will slightly modify these and some other events because I felt some encounters were taking too long and were getting too "grindy".


P.S. - I came up with an even better solution to my "Economy Mod". Instead of modifying the volumes of certain goods, I've discovered a way to make trading ships spawn with less than the fixed 500 amount which isn't even dependent on the volume or price of the goods, it's just a stable 500 which I think is silly. And also to reduce the maxCargoSpace of stations so they can't have an unreasonably high number of expensive goods and this change also impacts the ships that deliver/sell to them on their trading routes too. I have the mods done now but want to test them before release. And I'll be re-incorporating the Economy Mod back into this Modpack if I get this new approach working well.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:46:52 PM by Wayleran »



Ravien

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on: January 25, 2018, 02:53:31 AM
Yeah that makes sense. And I did notice the dreadnought and have even seen a few pirate motherships and even a xsotan one! Pretty cool!

I don't know if there's a way to make some of the attacks still spawn greater numbers of weaker ships to give some more variety to the attacks or if you want to do that for your mod. There's something satisfying about fighting off a dozen alien ships.

Liking the mods so far!



Shrooblord

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on: January 25, 2018, 08:20:24 PM
Wayleran, do you think you could add Swarm Events? I'd love to see one instance of Xsotan trying a different strategy: not 4 decent-at-combat ships, but 1 mothership and 15 tiny little shit craft that are meant to swarm and overwhelm me.

Also, yes please - I'd like to see the Economy Mod reintegrated into the main suite. ;)
Shrooblord



Wayleran

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on: January 26, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
New Version Released!

Update 1/26/2018: Version 0.15.7.5

 - The Economy Mod has been re-integrated and COMPLETELY redesigned so it now only impacts raiding and has little to no negative impact of legitimate trading.

 - Trading ships will now carry less goods overall and therefore yield less profits, however players can still "farm" high value goods (like Mining Robots or Body Armors) by paying attention and finding good trade routes and simply waiting on more trade ships to enter the sector.

 - Pirates have had their hulls and dps slightly increased after the last version of the mod nerfed them a little too much. I'm fine-tuning things like this to find a balance between making enemies more challenging while also not adding "grind" to the game.

 - Both Pirate Attacks and Convoi/Fake Distress Signals have also had the number of enemies that spawn slightly modified. Some harder encounters may have 1 or 2 more enemies than before, while easier ones are still the same.

 - Alien Attack events have also been adjusted to have an extra ship in most cases and the sizes of the Xsotan Reavers, Dreadnoughts and Motherships have also been increased because they too were nerfed too much in the previous version of the mod.



Ravien

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on: January 27, 2018, 03:35:44 AM
New Version Released!

Update 1/26/2018: Version 0.15.7.5

 - The Economy Mod has been re-integrated and COMPLETELY redesigned so it now only impacts raiding and has little to no negative impact of legitimate trading.

 - Trading ships will now carry less goods overall and therefore yield less profits, however players can still "farm" high value goods (like Mining Robots or Body Armors) by paying attention and finding good trade routes and simply waiting on more trade ships to enter the sector.

 - Pirates have had their hulls and dps slightly increased after the last version of the mod nerfed them a little too much. I'm fine-tuning things like this to find a balance between making enemies more challenging while also not adding "grind" to the game.

 - Both Pirate Attacks and Convoi/Fake Distress Signals have also had the number of enemies that spawn slightly modified. Some harder encounters may have 1 or 2 more enemies than before, while easier ones are still the same.

 - Alien Attack events have also been adjusted to have an extra ship in most cases and the sizes of the Xsotan Reavers, Dreadnoughts and Motherships have also been increased because they too were nerfed too much in the previous version of the mod.

That is excellent news! Thanks for all the updates!