Author Topic: The Mobile Energy Lab has 3.00011e6 firepower.  (Read 1005 times)

Speed

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on: July 29, 2018, 02:43:44 AM
Umm... so I started a new game to try out the Combat Update Pt II.  I was making my way merrily along until I encountered the Mobile Energy Laboratory.   It has 3.00011e6 firepower and one-shots you.  I'm playing in Insane difficulty.  The entire game is super easy up to this point.  I guess 3.00011e6 firepower does in fact match the description "insane", but compared to everything else you encounter, it's ridiculously overpowered.  It literally has about 3000 to 6000 times more firepower than the average pirate ship.  I get that the dev wanted to make the fight harder but that is just so stupidly more powerful that it HAS to be a bug... right?

I tried covering my entire ship with stone, but apparently not even stone can repel firepower of that magnitude.

Observe.  Here is the fight against the Mobile Energy Lab first with armor, and second with stone.  I instantly die with armor, I survive a little bit longer with stone.


Maybe the lightning bolts are finding a way through a gap in the stone, like in the thruster grills?  I'll try building a giant thin shield of stone on the front of my ship and have the turrets peeking around the edge, maybe that will work?  Thankfully I know how to save my game. 

« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 07:40:36 AM by Speed »



Speed

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on: July 29, 2018, 02:55:40 AM
Yea, I just killed it by putting a huge solid stone shield in front of my ship and having the turrets on the edges.  Still, I don't think this is a good gameplay decision (an understatement).  Pretty much every player is just going to steamroll up to the Mobile Energy Lab and then just get 1-shotted.  Maybe if the rest of the content was almost equally difficult, then this wouldn't be quite as obscene.  At least "Insane" would actually be "insane" then.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 02:58:11 AM by Speed »



Kamo

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on: July 31, 2018, 11:35:19 PM
Yup, it needs to be nerfed hmm... 30-fold, for around 10 000 omicron, giving a usual player flagship some time to flee.
It still need to be DPS-heavy though, as the boss theme is "UNLIMITED POWER RAARGH". (The boss also has too much health in that regard for a low-health-high-damage ship.)
Or maybe the satellite DPS needs to approach 10 000 omicron and the boss 30 000 (or even a little more), so the player would deduce "those M.A.D. guys have pretty devastating lightning, maybe getting a bigger ship or stone shielding would ease up the shock" from the satellites' already strong attacks and prepare for the boss' mad damage.
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Speed

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on: August 05, 2018, 11:40:26 PM
Yup, it needs to be nerfed hmm... 30-fold, for around 10 000 omicron, giving a usual player flagship some time to flee.
It still need to be DPS-heavy though, as the boss theme is "UNLIMITED POWER RAARGH". (The boss also has too much health in that regard for a low-health-high-damage ship.)
Or maybe the satellite DPS needs to approach 10 000 omicron and the boss 30 000 (or even a little more), so the player would deduce "those M.A.D. guys have pretty devastating lightning, maybe getting a bigger ship or stone shielding would ease up the shock" from the satellites' already strong attacks and prepare for the boss' mad damage.
Kamo,
A thirty-fold DPS nerf would still be 100K om, not 10K!!!

I'm of the opinion that it's perfectly fine to make the ship so powerful that a normal player flagship vessel cannot destroy it before it killing the player.   But the player needs the opportunity to realize that, not just be instantly killed.  That player needs the opportunity to realize he needs to run away, and re-armor his ship in stone, and re-attempt the fight again.  When the MEL killed me the first time, I first just thought it was a bug!!!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 11:41:57 PM by Speed »



Hammelpilaw

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on: August 06, 2018, 08:36:55 AM
When the MEL killed me the first time, I first just thought it was a bug!!!

Well this acually is a bug. Wonder if the dev dont know about...? *reporting it*

Remember damage to be 30k about a year ago.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 08:41:36 AM by Hammelpilaw »
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unbekannt1984

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on: August 06, 2018, 10:15:59 AM
Hi,


Well this acually is a bug. Wonder if the dev dont know about...? *reporting it*

Remember damage to be 30k about a year ago.

Massively increased damage and reach of the mobile energy laboratory
from 0.18 Patchnotes.

Well, "massively increased"... But by a factor of 100?!? That seems to be a little too much.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 10:18:13 AM by unbekannt1984 »



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on: August 06, 2018, 06:08:03 PM
Massively increased damage and reach of the mobile energy laboratory

Well, did not see this. Sure its true, game is too easy, I often said this in forums. But just pulling some single bosses to incredible damage is not the nice solution. It does much more damage then the wormhole guardian now.

It would be good if the overall difficulty in this area would fit to this, but it doesn't. The lab does something like 1000x more damage then other ships/bosses outside the core now, because it was the strongest boss outside core even before version 0.18. Thats why I thought it would be a bug.

Maybe we should start a new topic in suggestion section to talk about the overall balancing of the game, may be interesting and help devs to see what we would like to have.
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TheDeadlyShoe

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on: August 06, 2018, 06:30:26 PM
I don't think it's supposed to be conventional difficulty. It's nonlinear; you counter it through immunizing yourself to its damage through range or stone blocks rather than simply building a bigger ship.
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Speed

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on: August 07, 2018, 08:19:10 AM
I don't think it's supposed to be conventional difficulty. It's nonlinear; you counter it through immunizing yourself to its damage through range or stone blocks rather than simply building a bigger ship.
1) That's precisely what I did in my video- I recast my entire ship's outer armor into stone.  It still killed me before I could do anything.  The only way I got past it was by putting a huge stone shield in front of my ship (not shown in video).  Right now, you have even the tiniest gap in your stone "armor", YOU WILL DIE, GUARANTEED.  Talk about forcing the cube meta on everyone, sheesh.
2) Sure, the MEL can be made to force the player to use stone armor, but I just don't think that the MEL should be able to kill the player instantly if they haven't taken precautions.  The player should be able to escape, re-armor himself in stone, and then return.  Is the average new player going to know beforehand that he has to convert his entire ship's outer skin into stone before he kills the fourth energy satellite?  That's ridiculous. 

An additional mechanic that would help the player to escape but still allow the MEL to do so much damage that stone was required would be to make the MEL increase its damage output more and more as its life/shield was taken away.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 08:21:45 AM by Speed »



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on: August 10, 2018, 01:39:57 PM
I found the cause, looks like an untested buff :P

Also easy to revert back, for those who want to.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 02:56:23 PM by Devious »



Kamo

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on: August 11, 2018, 09:41:22 PM
Yup, it needs to be nerfed hmm... 30-fold, for around 10 000 omicron, giving a usual player flagship some time to flee. [...]
Kamo,
A thirty-fold DPS nerf would still be 100K om, not 10K!!!
Whoops, didn't realize, 3e6 being 3 million and not 300k. Derp cannot do math (but er, shouldn't million of omicron read "3 mil omicron" like hull/shield point counts do ? UI oversight I guess)...
Yup, 300-fold DPS nerf needed to not vaporize average player in less than 30 secs :P.
In the meantime, think of putting a 120-fighter carrier 60 km away from the satellite before destroying it with long range torpedoes with a ship strafing at over nine thousand speed with boosted engines and two exotic weeee-boxes so it whizzes past the spawning boss' range by the time it hails :).
(Bonus points if the fighters are 16km+ range cannon/launcher/railgun fighters the MEL has no chance of hitting.)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 09:50:19 PM by Kamo »
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on: August 12, 2018, 06:31:52 PM
Remember that game is not resetting bosses standings to you when respawning them next time. Next time that MAD will appear to fight you (because you are in other part of galaxy destroying new satellites), it will spawn as already hostile and start blasting at you from get-go, while you are still in communications interface.



unbekannt1984

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on: August 18, 2018, 07:18:22 PM
Hi Devious,

I found the cause, looks like an untested buff :P

Also easy to revert back, for those who want to.

nice :) Would you mind testing a little? If you revert those changes and increase damage to shields by a factor of 100, wouldn't that be about the same without 1-shots?

EDIT: Well, just revert the changes to the weapon damage (buffs to reach, accuracy, RoF and so on don't matter that much)...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:21:40 PM by unbekannt1984 »



Kamo

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on: September 11, 2018, 08:58:06 PM
[...] I tried covering my entire ship with stone, but apparently not even stone can repel firepower of that magnitude.

Observe.  Here is the fight against the Mobile Energy Lab first with armor, and second with stone.  I instantly die with armor, I survive a little bit longer with stone.


Maybe the lightning bolts are finding a way through a gap in the stone, like in the thruster grills?  I'll try building a giant thin shield of stone on the front of my ship and have the turrets peeking around the edge, maybe that will work?  Thankfully I know how to save my game.
I've found my Wakaba (ship armoured only in reflectors) does not resist lasers particularily well, so it made me wonder if there is a bug in damage resistant materials. I almost feel that only the full blocks resist but not the edges/corners, which would explain how the second ship died almost as easily as the first. Can someone test it before me ?
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DivineEvil

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on: September 12, 2018, 12:12:51 PM
I've found my Wakaba (ship armoured only in reflectors) does not resist lasers particularily well, so it made me wonder if there is a bug in damage resistant materials. I almost feel that only the full blocks resist but not the edges/corners, which would explain how the second ship died almost as easily as the first. Can someone test it before me ?
I've never seen or heard anyone or anything stating, that Reflectors can resist beam weapons. As far as I can tell its just a decorative material with normal mapping only and black-body reflection ratio.
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