Author Topic: turret factory built time  (Read 258 times)

Wanderer

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on: August 12, 2018, 06:31:19 PM
As an idea for the bug posted by devious, i would like to see built time added to turrets being built at turret factory's, as it would counter the entire problem of quickly crafting dozens and dozens of turrets and selling them for a lot of money. I dont mind the selling part, but you shouldnt be instantly given the turrets, as it would take time to assemble them. Then its still possible to make money, but not that quickly and that easy.
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Devious

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on: August 12, 2018, 06:55:36 PM
It's a good suggestion, altough the price and stat calculations still need a serious rework for a multiplayer economy.
The profit margin on those specific turrets is way too high, forcing everyone to that meta in a PvP multiplayer situation to keep up.

Those turrets also have hundred thousands omicron usually, which doesn't help either.



DivineEvil

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on: August 12, 2018, 09:17:51 PM
Again, my points still stands - turret factories should only produce Common tier of their own turret patterns, or could be used to generate a blueprint for player's own turrets, so that looting, researching and consciously choosing the turrets that you get will always be preferable end-game over creating factories as close to the core as possible, that magically produce best weapons in the given instance. Ideally turrets should also be completely detached from the commodities and just use resources and credits. I believe it would be easier to balance the sell prices that way, and you also could introduce factory production time, since in that instance you'd only use resource and credits, that are not necessary to carry around like commodities, so you won't get stuck near the factory.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:21:25 PM by DivineEvil »
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Rinart73

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on: August 13, 2018, 12:09:48 AM
I don't personally use this mechanics to get money, but I don't see a problem with turrets that cost more that their components. That's basically how any factory should work. It's not like we're getting money from nothing - we need to find all these components first.
But if this happens, I think that the difference between final cost and cost of ingredients shouldn't be too high. So if all these Servos and Steel could be sent to a different factories the final profit would be slightly more than making them into a turret and then selling it.

Build time - fine, that sounds okay.

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will always be preferable end-game over creating factories as close to the core as possible
I agree that there should be a balance between Research and Crafting. But it's important to do this gently so it will not kill turret factories near the center.
Plus then we need to rework Research mechanics - not just "place any - get random", but "place the best stuff to get even better stuff".

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Ideally turrets should also be completely detached from the commodities and just use resources and credits
Why do you think that this is a good idea? Currently I think it's the only thing that prevents current mechanics from being exploited even more. If devs will remove component price you can just forget about commodities completely, get some cash, ai miners and drown in turrets.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:12:03 AM by Rinart73 »



DivineEvil

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on: August 14, 2018, 12:48:56 AM
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I don't personally use this mechanics to get money, but I don't see a problem with turrets that cost more that their components. That's basically how any factory should work. It's not like we're getting money from nothing - we need to find all these components first.
But if this happens, I think that the difference between final cost and cost of ingredients shouldn't be too high. So if all these Servos and Steel could be sent to a different factories the final profit would be slightly more than making them into a turret and then selling it.
Technically that should only be profitable when using your own Turret Factory - then you're excluded from the necessity to pay for the job, as you already pay wages to the workers in the factory.


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I agree that there should be a balance between Research and Crafting. But it's important to do this gently so it will not kill turret factories near the center.
Plus then we need to rework Research mechanics - not just "place any - get random", but "place the best stuff to get even better stuff".
I don't see how turret factories near center are supposed to be something special. Sure, the turrets they can produce on their own will use the better, readily available material as base. Other than that, tech level has no basis and instead make anyone reaching the core first technically undefeatable.

Now, that's not my initial contention at all - the problem is that crafting as it is now makes looted weapons worthless. I mostly agree on the topic of Research, although it can work for me either way, whether you can research the very good high-tier turret as a "trump card" for the ship, compared to mass-produced but mediocre factory turrets, OR you can research a decent turret and then reproduce it just as any other turret, but with its own specific features, that generic turrets will never get.

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Why do you think that this is a good idea? Currently I think it's the only thing that prevents current mechanics from being exploited even more. If devs will remove component price you can just forget about commodities completely, get some cash, ai miners and drown in turrets.
Well my perspective is that there's absolutely no consistency in the ways of producing value. Like, at all, to the absurd extent. You mine resources and earn money to build a ship, then you loot turrets, because there's no way you'd bother gathering the same commodities to build turrets at the beginning, then the situation reverses, and all looted turrets go right out of the airlock into the Equipment dock to fund turret building completely by money; You also can make your own fighters using materials, but you need a turret first... You cannot produce Systems at all, and Torpedoes can only be bought. This is like taking principles from 4 different games and combining them in the most awkward way possible.

First of all, there's absolutely no reason to specifically tie turrets to the trading commodities. In the end its all credits anyway - the only difference is that you waste time and nerves relying on luck to find factories producing the necessary components. Economy in Avorion is generally oversaturated beyond reason with dozens of goods, that nobody cares about, ever, at all, and the turret components only exaggerate the issue further. Sometimes you might find yourself just spending hours upon hours looking for this ***** Warhead Factory in faction after faction, despite the fact, that necessity of ammo for the production of a turret is in general ridiculous, especially when it somehow capable of changing turret's stats, since ammunition otherwise seems abundant above any concerns (i.e. conditionally infinite).

If building kilometers-long ships doesn't demand commodities, then turrets shouldn't either. Or, let cut out all the useless food bars and proteins out of the economy (and there's a lot of that. A LOT) and replace it with commodities, that has to be used for all aspects - ships, weapons, modules and torpedoes. Not a nonsensical in-between.

As I've written in another thread before, my own perception is that economy should be primarily used for earning good credits, gaining reputation and, most importantly, supporting the NPC factions you trade with. Factions would have top-end consumer stations, that require specific sets of goods - Civilian, Industrial, Military and Technological branches. Providing the goods for particular branch gives bonuses to that faction in terms of available crew, mission/defense rewards, rate of factory production, lower prices for buying materials, stronger and more numerous ships, better equipment for sale and better results from research etc etc etc. Then it would make sense to invest heavily into helping a faction progress to reap great benefits in the long run, and it would not be so painstaking due to less variety of factories and shorter production chains.

Tying turrets into economy is redundant. It has nothing to do with exploits, as they're supposed to be addressed on their own merit - making a conjunction between them is not a solution at all.
"Well, Charanpal... I guess that makes us even.
I, uh... I always thought I'd have something clever to say in this moment. You know, something pithy.  Even a little ironic, but... memorable. But I can't think of a fucking thing.
Oh well..."
- Expanse Original TV Series