Author Topic: Devs pleas fix this.  (Read 779 times)

LordMaddog

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on: September 15, 2018, 02:20:49 AM



DivineEvil

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on: September 15, 2018, 04:48:52 PM
I'm not sure what the developers can even do about this "problem".  Using the 'match block' function can only adapt the dimensions of a new block to the block that it is placed upon - there's no mechanism to make it adapt the dimensions from any other blocks.

I mean no offense, but in my opinion you simply should keep to integer numbers from the beginning of building process to the end, and there's absolutely no point to go into decimals for building anything, including the circular and curved shapes. I have no clue how one can step away from integer values into 5+ decimals apart from simple negligence in the process.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 04:51:41 PM by DivineEvil »
"Well, Charanpal... I guess that makes us even.
I, uh... I always thought I'd have something clever to say in this moment. You know, something pithy.  Even a little ironic, but... memorable. But I can't think of a fucking thing.
Oh well..."
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TheDeadlyShoe

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on: September 19, 2018, 05:18:57 PM
Quote
I have no clue how one can step away from integer values into 5+ decimals apart from simple negligence in the process.
rescaling it a couple times?
has opinions



Kamo

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on: September 21, 2018, 12:53:55 AM
Ouch, modifying rescaled ships and especially pasted block groups sure is a bad idea.
When rescaling a block group, the group's size will be rounded by the Scale Size: so if you have seven 1x1x1 blocks in a X-row, and scale the group to 10x1x1, the seven blocks will have individual sizes of 10/7 x1x1, so 1,428571...x1x1.
Multiply that issue with three dimensions and you'll soon get "stranded" on "Match Block" dependency and forced to make imprecise fixes and endure misalignments.


There's also the floating point errors, and I also hate them with a passion...
I don't understand how floating point errors even happen with numbers with no decimals, and even powers of two at that !
It seems the contents of the "block info" dialog are loaded into the block size pointer, then reloaded back to the block info, causing the floating point error to appear.
Of course using numbers who aren't made of additions of powers of two (or fractions thereof) will cause bigger rounding errors due to how floating point variables are stocked (so, for the computer which counts in binary, 0.2 = 0.125 (1/8) + 0.0625 (1/16) + 0.0078125 (1/128) + 0.00390625 (1/256) + 0.00048828125 (1/2048), so happens to be a "real" number with infinite decimals in binary).

There should be a 3-decimal rounding rule to avoid the floating point errors, as 0.999999x1x1 blocks cannot house size-1 turrets and aaagh >:(

Right now, with hardpoints, I try rounding to the desired value when putting the block when there's only one erroneous value, and when both hardpoint sizes are erroneous values, I add .01 to those values to overcompensate from the error.
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DivineEvil

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on: September 21, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
Ouch, modifying rescaled ships and especially pasted block groups sure is a bad idea.
When rescaling a block group, the group's size will be rounded by the Scale Size: so if you have seven 1x1x1 blocks in a X-row, and scale the group to 10x1x1, the seven blocks will have individual sizes of 10/7 x1x1, so 1,428571...x1x1.
Multiply that issue with three dimensions and you'll soon get "stranded" on "Match Block" dependency and forced to make imprecise fixes and endure misalignments.


There's also the floating point errors, and I also hate them with a passion...
I don't understand how floating point errors even happen with numbers with no decimals, and even powers of two at that !
It seems the contents of the "block info" dialog are loaded into the block size pointer, then reloaded back to the block info, causing the floating point error to appear.
Of course using numbers who aren't made of additions of powers of two (or fractions thereof) will cause bigger rounding errors due to how floating point variables are stocked (so, for the computer which counts in binary, 0.2 = 0.125 (1/8) + 0.0625 (1/16) + 0.0078125 (1/128) + 0.00390625 (1/256) + 0.00048828125 (1/2048), so happens to be a "real" number with infinite decimals in binary).

There should be a 3-decimal rounding rule to avoid the floating point errors, as 0.999999x1x1 blocks cannot house size-1 turrets and aaagh >:(

Right now, with hardpoints, I try rounding to the desired value when putting the block when there's only one erroneous value, and when both hardpoint sizes are erroneous values, I add .01 to those values to overcompensate from the error.
Well as you can see, OP is building a new station, so I still don't see how one can arrive from integers to decimals. Unless he's copy-pastes fragments of the curve, as if its going to increase the building rate...
"Well, Charanpal... I guess that makes us even.
I, uh... I always thought I'd have something clever to say in this moment. You know, something pithy.  Even a little ironic, but... memorable. But I can't think of a fucking thing.
Oh well..."
- Expanse Original TV Series



Warrax

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on: September 30, 2018, 04:29:28 PM
I agree - this can be frustrating - BUT ...

There are subtleties in design that can solved with more than one piece ... in my experience - solutions are often borne upon experience - fails and wins.
My BEST advice - never work in scales of 0.05 

For instance ... my Tie-Fighter Wing design, which I placed on my Freighter ship, The Jackal.
This build (below) was build solely on scales not smaller that 0.10.


Jackal Wing Pods
Spoiler: show












And ... mounted (close up from the Jackal)
Spoiler: show
 


All XMLs are linked here in this post
http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,2539.msg13053.html#msg13053

Cheers  :)
Ship designs:  The Crab, Tie Interceptor,  Aurum,  Audaces, Avaris, and  Aegoran
Go to: Trimaran Hull Designs



deep

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on: October 08, 2018, 02:34:10 AM
I am using Google translation
I am sorry my English is bad

More than a year ago, I also had the same trouble
Because I could not make the Millennium Falcon dome on AVORION scale
Decimal point was not enough even though resizing was repeated

I do not know the blue print of your station
I can not imagine the shape of a completed round dome
I am happy if this method helps
But there is a problem
This method of deforming the template transcends the decimal point made by the AVORION system
Instead it will be difficult to remodel the dome


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=971567358 



MetalLaires

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on: October 11, 2018, 02:49:14 AM
Thanx to those numbers I can calculate the size and dimensions of my ships inner and outer workings. 1 = 10 meters
Nothing to fix, rather a tool. Those numbers also often change when you rotate your block.

I like to see how it compares in size to ships from famous galaxies like macross or star wars trek or eve online or warhammer or....





Hakkete

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on: October 14, 2018, 02:49:51 AM
So is the verdict it's getting fixed or not?



koonschi

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on: October 17, 2018, 12:28:53 PM
The verdict is, that it cannot be fixed since this is fundamentally engrained into the way computers treat floating point numbers. Some numbers simply can't be displayed in floating point numbers and at some point you WILL get rounding errors, and there is nothing that we can do about it, except for going minecraft-style voxel grid, which is out of the question.
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deep

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on: October 17, 2018, 01:57:17 PM


I am sorry my English is very bad

Decimal error always brings fatal destruction to ship's build
Micro cracks, micro steps, edge overlap, black lines of shadow effect capture everything.
The ship I am making now does not have the same shape as I made slopes and curves by piling a lot of 2.5 blocks on the port and starboard.
Finally we do not have 50.00 ... lol

Blender performs smoothing on jagged edges
It is the final processing of the build of the ship
Is it impossible to adjust the size of the whole block and fill the micro cracks or smooth the rounding of the seam line of jagged blocks?