Poll

What do you think about turret factories?

I like it and I think it should stay exactly as it is right now.
2 (15.4%)
I think it should take resources instead of goods to build turrets.
1 (7.7%)
I think turret factories should not allow to create new turrets, but to duplicate turrets you already posses at the cost of trading goods and credits.
2 (15.4%)
I think turret factories should not allow to create new turrets, but to duplicate turrets you already posses at the cost of resources and credits.
2 (15.4%)
I don’t like the current system and have another idea that is not represented by the other answers.
0 (0%)
I would like a blueprint system as suggested in this thread or something similar, that changes turret factories and makes the overall item management more uniform.
6 (46.2%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Poll: Do you think turret factories need a change?  (Read 545 times)

Sir Charles

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on: March 14, 2019, 12:14:16 PM
Currently turret factories require goods to make specific turrets. I would personally prefer them to duplicate your existing turrets at the cost of resources instead of trading goods(Not up to date. DivineEvil suggested something way better down there!), but with this poll, I just want to find out whether other people like the current system or not and mabye create a suggestion based on that.

I am very curious what results we will get here!
If you got another idea that was not represented in my questions, type it below! :D
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:07:04 PM by Sir Charles »
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Sandworm

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on: March 14, 2019, 03:46:38 PM
I don't think it needs to be either/or.  I like the idea of turret factories, I think the idea of making copies is reasonable, I definitely think goods should be used as well as resources.

As for your last option; I think turret factories could play a much bigger role in item progression. My 'idea' (and I'll be the first to admit a not terribly well thought out idea) would be to make all weapons not made at a turret factory, standard in every way. A Tech 6 Iron Triple Chaingun drop would always have the same stats as any another Tech 6 Iron Triple Chaingun - a turret factory where the player makes a Tech 6 Iron Triple Chaingun will always have better stats then its ~Costco~ equivalent.  Drops from enemy ships then could have a *small* chance of dropping these better weapons, but for the most part it will be up to the player to find and use a turret factory if they want better weapons.

Research stations would be a bit more interesting - (5)Tech 6 Iron Triple Chainguns would get you (1)Tech 7/8/9 Iron Triple Chaingun, again with standard stats, but with the possibility to return an "enhanced" (as if made at a turret factory) version.

I know there are a dozen little details I'm not thinking about, but I hope you get the gist of my 'idea' ;D



Ravien

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on: March 14, 2019, 09:30:23 PM
I'd like them to be able to duplicate turrets instead of making new ones. I'd still like them to require trade goods because it gives you a reason to trade for them.

It would make random weapon drops far more valuable. Right now, the absolute best turrets are always made at a turret factory. It takes the fun and excitement out of finding a new legendary weapon drop, because you know that whatever it is, you're going to be able to build something better at a factory.



Sir Charles

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on: March 14, 2019, 11:18:09 PM
It would make random weapon drops far more valuable. Right now, the absolute best turrets are always made at a turret factory. It takes the fun and excitement out of finding a new legendary weapon drop, because you know that whatever it is, you're going to be able to build something better at a factory.

Indeed.
Especially when the legendaries you create out of factory-turrets at a research stations are always worse than what you put in there -.-
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DivineEvil

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on: March 15, 2019, 02:05:09 PM
I think, that Turret Factories should be able to consume player turrets to produce Turret Blueprints. When doing so, they associate the parameters of these turrets and assign the production cost in Resources and Credits. Resource demands can vary by the type of the turret in question, i.e. Chainguns would require Iron and Laser turrets would require Naonite due to their technological grade, even if they was originally found far beyond associated regions. That would sustain the value of lower-tier resources throughout the progression. A player then can use Assemblers, preferably on his own Stations, to replicate those Turrets over time similar to Fighters, and as such develop his own tech-base of weapons that can be equipped to his ships or traded with other players in a scaleable fashion.

Using commodities for producing turrets makes absolutely no sense, since they're oddly the only part of the spacecraft construction attached to them - neither Fighters using these same weapons, System Modules, Torpedoes or ships themselves has any relation to Commodities, and large portion of trading goods exist for the sole purpose of making turrets, which makes their variety superfluous and convoluted. Commodities should exist as an independent source of credit income and as a method of improving relations with NPC factions and increasing their capability to defend claimed sectors, wage faction wars, replenishing casualties, offering better services and greater credits rewards to players, etc.

The only other option here is tying Commodities to all space-faring elements and purging them from any unused goods and production chains, which in turn can complicate progression beyond reason. Thus, it is far better to remove all dependency of Turrets from trading, and to eliminate all Commodities, which has no value outside of these dependencies. This coincides with the general Commodity purge, that I've been advocating for over a year now.
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Sir Charles

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on: March 15, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Using commodities for producing turrets makes absolutely no sense, since they're oddly the only part of the spacecraft construction attached to them - neither Fighters using these same weapons, System Modules, Torpedoes or ships themselves has any relation to Commodities, and large portion of trading goods exist for the sole purpose of making turrets, which makes their variety superfluous and convoluted. Commodities should exist as an independent source of credit income and as a method of improving relations with NPC factions and increasing their capability to defend claimed sectors, wage faction wars, replenishing casualties, offering better services and greater credits rewards to players, etc.

Exactly. Making turrets is not fun, it is just annoying...
I don‘t know know if I would like a blueprint system as it would add another layer of complexity to the game, but it definitely is a nice idea and will give the game even more depth. The key is to slowly introduce this as you proceed towards the center, so it won‘t be overwhelming for newer players in my oppinion and the devs have not disappointed me in the past when it comes to creative solutions.
One of the reasons I created this poll was to find out how the community thinks about turret factories in general and so far the current mechanic seems not to be wanted... we will se how this develops (hopefully), if more people participate here.
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DivineEvil

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on: March 16, 2019, 01:28:59 AM
I don‘t know know if I would like a blueprint system as it would add another layer of complexity to the game, but it definitely is a nice idea and will give the game even more depth. The key is to slowly introduce this as you proceed towards the center, so it won‘t be overwhelming for newer players in my oppinion and the devs have not disappointed me in the past when it comes to creative solutions.
One of the reasons I created this poll was to find out how the community thinks about turret factories in general and so far the current mechanic seems not to be wanted... we will se how this develops (hopefully), if more people participate here.
Well, I think that the problem lies with the general picture of the current state of mechanics. It's not that mechanic of turret factories is undesirable - its more that the different mechanics became unreasonably disjointed as they were introduced one after the other. Turrets are looted, bought, researched and produced. Systems are looted, bought and researched. Fighters are bought and assembled. Torpedoes are only bought. These discrepancies create more complexity for newer players, than any solutions targeted at unifying the interactions with these tools could ever produce. What has to be made is a cardinal decision about the universal and balanced model of acquirement and production for all spaceship design and armament.

In the frame of my previous description that means, that instead of having a assembly functions tied to Fighters, there should be a separate Assembly tab that handles the production of all spacecraft elements - Turrets, Fighters, Systems and Torpedoes. Turret Factory provide Turret blueprints, Fighter Factories provide Fighter Blueprints, Equipment Docks provide Torpedo Blueprints, and Research Stations provide System blueprints. Players can purchase generic blueprints from associated stations or make a blueprint from an item they've acquired otherwise. All manufacturing costs are tied only to variable Resources and Credits. Type of resources needed depends on the type of the turret, fighter, torpedo or module, which will sustain the value of all resources and trading between players of different progression states. Rarity, relative power and tech level multiplies the needed amount of resource, credit value and production power required. Since the Blueprint framework already exist for Fighters, adapting it for other purposes produces no additional complexity - it only requires careful math implementation and testing.

This approach would allow to unify the mechanics under the shared framework, that is much more intuitive for any player. It also further amplifies the value of high-grade Assembly blocks, because they not only allow multiple fighters to be assembled simultaneously - they would allow multiple types of variable equipment produced at the same time. After that or any other unification is implemented, then the prospect of balancing turrets, fighters and torpedoes would become a lot easier as well.
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Sir Charles

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on: March 16, 2019, 02:27:21 AM
That is a really really good idea.

I support it without any exclusions!


I like the way it would make things more connected and uniform, also it will give iron, titanium and Naonite production blocks an actual reason to exist (beside factories ofc).
It also gives a use to turret factories in the outer regions of the galaxy and makes torpedoes more attractive.
Last but not least, it would make loot much more valuable and make you feel happier when you find some good stuff. Since looting torpedoes is a planned feature, I see some great potential here. Creation of torpedoe and module blueprints from stuff you already own could be problematic in terms of balance, so mabye that should only be possible for torpedoes and fighters.
An overall change like you, DivineEvil, suggest will not touch the current way to play early game, but it will expand possibilities and grant a better feeling  for all those players who like to build specialized ships with uniform weaponry.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:16:31 PM by Sir Charles »
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Sir Charles

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on: March 16, 2019, 05:06:20 PM
Update: added a new option based on DivineEvils suggestion.
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AstroOwl

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on: March 19, 2019, 03:21:49 AM
I cannot support the idea of replicating existing turrets at turret factories enough.
Ability to replicate drops from enemies would would mean that you can actually make your ship's tactics around a lucky drop, instead of just throwing it away. Currently one turret dropped from enemy, even if it is incredibly lucky to be better than OP turret factory stuff, cannot be actually used, because it is just one turret, and you cannot shape all your engagement range, etc, around just one weapon piece.

As far as the place of commodities in the grand scheme of things, this is a more tricky question, but i do agree with DivineEvil that it makes sense to eventually make this uniform.
That is, commodities are either:
1) used in the production of combat assets, but in this case -all assets:  torpedoes, modules, fighters too, or
2) commodities are not used for combat assets, even for turrets - they are just a mean to make money.

This suggestion:
Quote
I think, that Turret Factories should be able to consume player turrets to produce Turret Blueprints. When doing so, they associate the parameters of these turrets and assign the production cost in Resources and Credits. Resource demands can vary by the type of the turret in question ...
describes a very good solution, as for me.

There is a question about the place of Research in all this.
Quote
Turret Factory provide Turret blueprints, Fighter Factories provide Fighter Blueprints, Equipment Docks provide Torpedo Blueprints, and Research Stations provide System blueprints.
Here is the proposal to allow the Research stations to provide System Blueprints. The question is, should Research stay as it is now, even if we allow to replicate systems?

Like, it would be possible to research one, say, legendary hyperspace upgrade, and then replicate if freely, albeit for a massive cost?

This is something to be considered, because we probably don't want to make system drops feel not valuable too. Unlike turrets, system upgrades don't vary so wildly within one tier, which means that you won't be as thrilled for a good drop as you might be with Turrets, once you get just one . Maybe this means that some steps should be made to make system upgrades a little more random, so that you would anticipate a possibly better system drop.

Overall, system proposed by DivineEvil seems reasonable and uniform. I hope devs would consider suggestions of this thread,  because Turret Factories as of now ruin the whole thrill of random drops which is supposed to keep players interested in fighting.



Sir Charles

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on: March 19, 2019, 12:24:00 PM
I agree with systems being something special, but I still think they should not have their own system, because that would be exactly what we wanted to remove with this suggestion.
The balancing for systems should be done inside of the borders of the blueprint system, e. g. there could be no blueprints at all for legendary upgrades (and mabye turrets as well, but if so, legendary turrets would need a huge buff to make this reasonable).
So (for updates, turrets only with legendary buff) you could loot and research legendary upgrades, but not replicate them.
Xsotan artifacts would stay as they are of course.

But I am pretty shure that if the devs consider this (and I hope they do, because the current system is really bad) they will give this their own touch anyways; and I am not concerned about it being good, just about it being actually done.
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SneakyTacts

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on: March 19, 2019, 10:03:01 PM
Systems’ stats should remain as they are. Golden, blue, and red systems are worth picking up and I can identify them from a distance. Since the other lower rarities are a hassle to collect, what do you all think about them dropping in greater amounts? I currently spend probably 20 hours between research sessions because I have too few items.



DivineEvil

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on: March 21, 2019, 11:37:27 PM
Quote
Like, it would be possible to research one, say, legendary hyperspace upgrade, and then replicate if freely, albeit for a massive cost?

This is something to be considered, because we probably don't want to make system drops feel not valuable too. Unlike turrets, system upgrades don't vary so wildly within one tier, which means that you won't be as thrilled for a good drop as you might be with Turrets, once you get just one . Maybe this means that some steps should be made to make system upgrades a little more random, so that you would anticipate a possibly better system drop.
Well, on one hand, Systems being less variable also means, that they have more stable individual value. You do not need nearly as many of them as you need turrets, they do not need to "stack" together, and any high-tier System is a valuable asset in all circumstances.

On the other hand, I agree that reproducing Exotic and Legendary items might be a bit too much. After all, it effectively neglects their "exotic/legendary" status. So it does make sense, that you simple unable to turn any Exotic or Legendary items into blueprints. This way any armament or equipment of that grade is a potential standalone "superweapon" - something even developed player factions would want to get and perhaps willing to spent an excess of resources to research their weapons into. You can even imagine it being possible to find a stash of several legendary torpedoes or fighters, which are otherwise unobtainable, which a player would cherish greatly and use with caution.

In the end, it is something the developers will have to decide. In solidarity, I can have ideas about pretty much anything in the game, but I'm fine as long as the glaring issues are resolved one way or the other.
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Sir Charles

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on: March 22, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
You can even imagine it being possible to find a stash of several legendary torpedoes or fighters, which are otherwise unobtainable, which a player would cherish greatly and use with caution..

Great idea!  Also if I already said earlier here, legendary turrets and fighters should get more buffed so they actually feel like real superweapons...
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Eruner

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on: April 05, 2019, 02:00:20 PM
.... Right now, the absolute best turrets are always made at a turret factory. ...
I disagree.

The most OP turrets I have are from Research station.

On the other hand, having a cheap turret factory is essential for feeding thousands of turrets into it, so you get the jackpot more often for less money/products.