Author Topic: Weapon rarity, material, version overhaul -> more consistency and filter ideas  (Read 71 times)

Zaratul

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    I play the game on Linux with patch 0.27.1, playing it on and off for years now and still love it so far.
    But the auto generated weapon combinations seem not to be that constistent or need a bit of a rework.

Examples:
1st weapon:  titanium,  exceptional,  double,  tech 16, dps 45,1
2nd weapon: naonite,  rare,                 tripple, tech 23, dps 34,8
3rd weapon: naonite,   exceptional,   single,  tech 22, dps 99,1
4th weapon: naonite,  common,        single,  tech 23, dps 38,1


I hope at least somebody is reading that, I really put some effort into it ;)


detailed ideas about a rework/overhaul:

1. weapon material is in reality uninteresting.

Yes you can place a Naonite weapon only on Naonite blocks or better.
This makes kind of sense but in reality it uninteresting.

Example:
In rare cases you get weapons without the access to the new ore.
But within a normal progression you should always be able to afford at least a small block to mount the new weapon on
         
In case just get your lazy ass closer to the core for the new ore

         
Argument:
  • Since it is so easy to circumvent  it means there is no real argument for it.
  • It is not a big deal but it simply doesn't make sense.

Suggestion:
  • Ditch weapon materials
  • Consistently link weapon stats to a tech level
  • Link the tech level to the distance to the core
  • If you want to keep weapon materials at least keep them at a certain range to the core; additionally the previous material should only be in exotic or exceptional cases better than the next uncommon (something like that)
  • Or bind the tech level to the ship material (iron tech 1-10, titanium 11-20, ...)
Pro: This would prevent cluttering of weapons

Pro: Iron weapons can be better than Naonite weapons becasuse the wide spreading of weapon stats
     This would prevent that

Pro: The progression is more constistent with the travel to the core.



         
2. Too many versions (Single/Double/Triple/Quad weapons)

I suppose a tripple should do 50% more dps compare to a double ??

Example:
  • In almost every case I use the weapon with the most dps anyway
  • Since a "double" can easily be better than a "Triple" (of the same tech level) thus  I simply don't care about these versions
   
Argument: The spread of weapon stats is too big for it to really mather

Suggestion:
  • Like above, limit the spread of weapon stats so you really can double/triple/quadruple the dps like the name implies
  • It would feel more rewarding to get such a weapon
  • Maybe you want to link the Single/Double/Triple/Quad and the rarity together (normal = bolter turret; uncommon = double bolter turret; rare = triple bolter turret; exceptionell = quad bolter turret; exotic = quad bolter turret + every other stat * 1,25)
   
           
3. Weapon Rarity

Yes, every game with auto generated weapons need such an element, but in Avorion it is kind of useless because of the wide stats spread

The spread of weapon stats is too big (an uncommon iron weapon can be better than an exotic trinium one). You made rarity absolete or weapon materials strange
   
Suggestion (better rarity should have more impact):
  • Have destinct stat multiplier for each rarity so that the result has more punch than the previous rarity
  • Or link "Single/Double/Triple/Quad" to the rarity
   

4. Tech level
I think the tech level is the most usefull way to base the stats on
At the moment it is not really an indicator or let's say everything is kind of strange.


Argument:
You see that the combination of rarity, tech level and the spread of stats is at the moment not really helpfull.
Thats why I only judge by dps and nothing more making everything else uninteresting
But, my inventory is colorfull, I'll give you that :)


Suggestion:
  • Bind dps to tech level
  • make the stats spread smaller
  • modify traits with rarity or multiply stats with it
  • ditch materials for weapons pls
   


5. Sorting of items and comparison

a) weapons marked with the star are in front of every sorting no matter what
  Example: I sort dps, my star marked weapon has the worst dps but is in front -> makes comparing items harder
  Suggestion: implement a check box "sort star items" to give people the possibility to really sort star items or not
 
  note: the more star items you have the less you are able to compare anything
 
b) unarmed turrets are listed within weapons (repair turret,..)
  Example: Since they have kind of dps/dmg they are sorted as well. Kind of annoying if you mistake them for weapons and sell them but want to keep them if needed
  Suggestion: Why not seperate them from weapons like the modules are ?

c) The weapon which are actually mounted don't show up in the inventory
  Argument: hard to find out if new looted weapons are better than mounted ones -> need to be easier
  Suggestion: display mounted weapons inside the inventory with a pale icon or something like that

d) I would seperate anti-fighter and point-defence turrets as well

e) If you seperate unarmed and defence turrets from the weapons it makes sense to increase the spaces between them (and of course also the modules)
   Or introduce a tab like system the players have controll over by adding tabs and selecting the content with a list box or drop-down box -> that would be awesome

f) Inside the inventory you have 2 drop down boxes for sorting
   The 2nd one only has "No borders", "rarity" and "material"  -> Include "type" please !!!!!!!!
   Argument: Everything is around dps and type and there is no combination of these 2 yet
   
   alternatively: add "dps" to the 2nd drop down box
   
   
6. Features

a) Loot filter (values saved in a config file pls) -> if you implement my tech level ideas then tech level, otherwise dps
   With consistent weapons and a configurable filter you would never loot crap (let's face it you rarely make your money by selling weapons)

b) filter for selling items (values saved in a config file pls)
   again dps or tech level

  Note: No, I don't want to mark 30 weapons as trash after the fight against the AI

   
   
5. Thoughts about Research

Not perticullarly usefull because:
  • Too much luck based
  • If you want to min/max or controll the result you hord weapons like crazy
  • I think 5 needed items are too many -> 3 would be ok


Suggestion 1 (lower the efficiency of the result):

If 1 of 5 items is not like the others reduce the dps by some degree (maybe 15-20% per different item)  and thus the efficiency of the next higher rarity
Like you have 2 different cookies + 1 vegetable, the cookie anticipation is there but lower because of the vegetable :)


-> lower amounnt of needed items with less punishment for a complete different item
 
 
 
Suggestion 2 (Special trait upgrade):
 
Introduce an upgrade next to the research

Sacrifice 1 item to copy the trait ("+X% Firing until overheated") to the other one
  • The result wouldn't be overpowered (you can limit the amounts of traits)
  • The player have more controll and you can limit everything

-> new feature of copying traits to another item
 



Conclusion:
  • devs can controll the generated weapon better
  • devs have an easier balancing the game
  • players have smoother progression
  • players havefaster comparison and easier selling



Sir Charles

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Don't worrry, the devs read pretty much everything, allthough they almost never reply.

I like most of your ideas, but I want to clearify some points:

Tech level is indeed linked to distance from the core.
Weapon stats are indeed linked to the tech level.
However due to the large variety of randomnes in the game this does only really show of when you take a look at turret factories.
In fact, most of the things you said should have impact on the weapons stats DO have an impact, but the randomness messes it all up and you can only really see the difference at turret factories.

I personally do think that weapons should be less random, so you get many with the same type and are enabled to stack them, making inventory management easier.

I think the player should be enabled to build turrets, upgrades and torpedoes just as it is possible with fighters. Details have been discussed elsewhere several times already. ;)
However building legendary items should NOT be possible while those gain a large bonus in their stats to make them true "super weapons" that are only aquired by loot and research.
Whatever you type, never forget:
Nobody rises up in the morning like "Today Ima gonna do a really bad job!"



phezzan

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Double / triple / quad turrets are (on paper) just decorative.  The dps is decided then divided by # of 'weapons'.  The only effective difference is high number of projectiles makes it easier to hit, but harder to hit 100% of the shots.

And I know this because I read data/scripts/.../turretgenerator



Zaratul

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Don't worrry, the devs read pretty much everything, allthough they almost never reply.

I like most of your ideas, but I want to clearify some points:

Tech level is indeed linked to distance from the core.
Weapon stats are indeed linked to the tech level.
However due to the large variety of randomnes in the game this does only really show of when you take a look at turret factories.
In fact, most of the things you said should have impact on the weapons stats DO have an impact, but the randomness messes it all up and you can only really see the difference at turret factories.


I already suspected this about the tech level.

I was just a bit frustrated by getting all these items but being in need to put so much effort into them  :)