Author Topic: You are not ready for release...but if you have to:  (Read 955 times)

SnakeWildlife

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on: February 10, 2020, 08:57:51 PM
You can't just nerf weapon range and expect to be fixed, THAT is what should be obvious.  There are meant to be weapons with longer ranges and mechanics for different playstyles.  Yes, Lightning and Rails are indeed OP and 100% the meta.  But that doesn't you mean you make all the weapons the same and boring with little to no variation.   Lightning could be made to be way more inaccurate, especially at long ranges, railguns could be made to pierce armor blocks (doing no damage to armor) and hit the underlying hull underneath doing a FLAT damage with no penetration.  Armor should also be sperate from hull, cannon and missile projectile speeds should be raised.  I made an indepth post on how all this would work in a suggestion I made. 

While your idea may be one way to help the game, I, personally do not view it as the right way and here is why, give it a consideration.  Railguns would still be overpowered because of the penetration multiplier, and lightning would still also be OP because of its very high damage output.  Lightning and rail ships will still dominate in close up fights with the only contender being teslas.  Add the slow and cumbersome old AI to the mix and you are guaranteed to hit these slow ships  There needs to be a comprehensive balance to weapon damages, damage types, projectile speeds, resistances, ect in my opinion to make the game diverse and engaging.

Yes the devs have a lot of balancing to do and yes they are going to be under a lot of time pressure to fix it.  The last thing the devs need is a post telling them THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO FIX YOUR GAME and guilt tripping them.

Im being quite firm and asking them them to quickly bandage the game because i am honestly annoyed with the current state of the game, have waited a year and a half to play but these issues have prevented me from playing a proper game, the incredibly slow development speed of the game, and the announcement that on March 9th they want to call it a 1.0. It is not ready and unless the development speed increases and fixes start coming in rapid-fire style, it looks like it is the purpose plan that theyre going to release an unfinished product perhaps intentionally to get a 'New Release' popup on steam and some smallscale extra sales. Seems morally wrong to shorthand the customers like that. Kinda bad behavior i would expect from a Bethesda game, not from these guys.

I never said i wanted to make all the weapons the same, anywhere, ever, and i would never support that idea.
Just thought i would counter that because i did not say that. Putting words in my mouth there a bit mate.

Like i said, we need to slap quick bandages on these things. Time is out. Apply a quick fix, done, boom! Move onto the next thing.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 09:06:00 PM by SnakeWildlife »



TESL4

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on: February 10, 2020, 09:46:00 PM

So nerf weapon range.  The elephant in the room is Lightning and Rail, some of us have been screaming from the bottom of our lungs for over 2 years to nerf these. The nerf has never happened and these 2 types of weapon are damaging the games potential, Lightning and Rail have been holding Avorion hostage for too long.
Spoiler: show
For heavens sake even the final boss Guardian has a max attack range of 5km...not 22+  is this not obvious evidence of a diamond-clear problem everybody can see. Everybody can see this issue right, you cant miss it. If you have fought the Guardian, then you already know its attack range, and you probably stay right in that sweet 5.1 spot where it just doesn't attack or chase you.


You said it, I am not putting words in your mouth.  If you reduce the range of 2 of the 3 long range weapons to equivalent to the other non long-range weapons, then yes all weapons will basically be the same just with different damage types with these two still being OP thanks to the penetration and high damage. 

As I stated, the mechanics of lightning and rail need to change not their range.  As do the mechanics with large ships having a higher base speed than small ships.  The NPC ship AI should not ever revert to their old and cumbersome selves, it made the game incredibly boring and easy.

Im being quite firm and asking them them to quickly bandage the game because i am honestly annoyed with the current state of the game, have waited a year and a half to play but these issues have prevented me from playing a proper game, the incredibly slow development speed of the game, and the announcement that on March 9th they want to call it a 1.0. It is not ready and unless the development speed increases and fixes start coming in rapid-fire style, it looks like it is the purpose plan that theyre going to release an unfinished product perhaps intentionally to get a 'New Release' popup on steam and some smallscale extra sales. Seems morally wrong to shorthand the customers like that. Kinda bad behavior i would expect from a Bethesda game, not from these guys.

There has never been issues with you playing the game, it is functional and it works well mechanically.  The only thing "preventing you from plaing" is your gripes with issues which do indeed need resolving, and they have fixed alot of issues already.  I'm not saying they are done because there indeed does need to be fixes, which is what they are currently working on.  Nearly all "1.0" releases by every single company need patches, do you know why?  The answer is because nearly no games are released perfect.  This game is already functional and MAGNITUDES more bug and glitch free than any Bethesda game, its not really a contest. 

This is not a cop out card I'm giving the devs, so far they have continued to fix the game issues and give us new content.  Yes its at a slow pace, but when you have such a small team like the devs have... what do you expect?  More than likely they can't really afford to hire extra help, and are hoping the extra sells on release will allow them to get help and finish patching up the completed game (content wise).



SnakeWildlife

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on: February 11, 2020, 05:37:34 PM
You said it, I am not putting words in your mouth.  If you reduce the range of 2 of the 3 long range weapons to equivalent to the other non long-range weapons, then yes all weapons will basically be the same just with different damage types with these two still being OP thanks to the penetration and high damage. 

As I stated, the mechanics of lightning and rail need to change not their range.  As do the mechanics with large ships having a higher base speed than small ships.  The NPC ship AI should not ever revert to their old and cumbersome selves, it made the game incredibly boring and easy.

There has never been issues with you playing the game, it is functional and it works well mechanically.  The only thing "preventing you from plaing" is your gripes with issues which do indeed need resolving, and they have fixed alot of issues already.  I'm not saying they are done because there indeed does need to be fixes, which is what they are currently working on.  Nearly all "1.0" releases by every single company need patches, do you know why?  The answer is because nearly no games are released perfect.  This game is already functional and MAGNITUDES more bug and glitch free than any Bethesda game, its not really a contest. 

This is not a cop out card I'm giving the devs, so far they have continued to fix the game issues and give us new content.  Yes its at a slow pace, but when you have such a small team like the devs have... what do you expect?  More than likely they can't really afford to hire extra help, and are hoping the extra sells on release will allow them to get help and finish patching up the completed game (content wise).

There is nothing wrong with damage type gameplay, Pokemon do this and look how big that industry is.

I have to strongly disagree with all of your points based on my analysis of obvious game problems that everyone here can see crystal clear within the first day of gameplay, by how you sound it just adds to my diamondstrong belief that it just feels like everyone wants to defend their ability to snipe and be unbeatable to due the range problem..., which makes this game...NOT a game. The fabric of the game mechanics are completely torn down by this issue and the defenders need to move aside for the sake of the games future. The game has NOTHING to fight you back with once you have your lightning and rail cheese. I dont mean to sound like a doctor but...
Step one to fixing range problems with lightning and rail is to admit that range with lightning and rail is a problem, this denial harms Avorion. Defending this is what is going to be one of the main causes of people walking out the door, me included and we're fed up of it.

Its time to stop the ''i want to keep my godly build'' and change it to ''ok its time to seriously balance this''.

There absolutely are issues with me being able to play the game due the games fabric being so torn full of these gamebreaking holes and bugs that right now i cant play because these issues are a showstopper. They frustrate me to the point i cant continue.

If by function and work well you mean enemies flying over 300km and disappearing from your HUD because they are so far away is good mechanics, i just....i dont understand why you continue to defend an obvious gamebreaking bug. I have no idea why some of you Defend obvious, proven bugs, youre killing Avorion with even this being a debate, which it shouldnt be.

Extra sales does not = faster development speed. In many cases especially in the Indie industry, it can often mean the total opposite. Some decide to keep developing, some take the money and RUN. With a AAA game company youre almost garauntee'd further development, but with Avorion...it is not possible for us to know, even if they say they plan to continue, they may not. Nobody knows.

1.0  needs to be stable, and bug free as possible. Currently, it is neither.
27 days left. See how quick these days are ticking by? And we still have denyers blockading the vital changes neccasary.
Enough of this Shielding and deflecting, put it aside for vital fixes and changes. Clock is ticking.



TESL4

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on: February 11, 2020, 07:56:16 PM
You said it, I am not putting words in your mouth.  If you reduce the range of 2 of the 3 long range weapons to equivalent to the other non long-range weapons, then yes all weapons will basically be the same just with different damage types with these two still being OP thanks to the penetration and high damage. 

As I stated, the mechanics of lightning and rail need to change not their range.  As do the mechanics with large ships having a higher base speed than small ships.  The NPC ship AI should not ever revert to their old and cumbersome selves, it made the game incredibly boring and easy.

There has never been issues with you playing the game, it is functional and it works well mechanically.  The only thing "preventing you from plaing" is your gripes with issues which do indeed need resolving, and they have fixed alot of issues already.  I'm not saying they are done because there indeed does need to be fixes, which is what they are currently working on.  Nearly all "1.0" releases by every single company need patches, do you know why?  The answer is because nearly no games are released perfect.  This game is already functional and MAGNITUDES more bug and glitch free than any Bethesda game, its not really a contest. 

This is not a cop out card I'm giving the devs, so far they have continued to fix the game issues and give us new content.  Yes its at a slow pace, but when you have such a small team like the devs have... what do you expect?  More than likely they can't really afford to hire extra help, and are hoping the extra sells on release will allow them to get help and finish patching up the completed game (content wise).

There is nothing wrong with damage type gameplay, Pokemon do this and look how big that industry is.

I have to strongly disagree with all of your points based on my analysis of obvious game problems that everyone here can see crystal clear within the first day of gameplay, by how you sound it just adds to my diamondstrong belief that it just feels like everyone wants to defend their ability to snipe and be unbeatable to due the range problem..., which makes this game...NOT a game. The fabric of the game mechanics are completely torn down by this issue and the defenders need to move aside for the sake of the games future. The game has NOTHING to fight you back with once you have your lightning and rail cheese. I dont mean to sound like a doctor but...
Step one to fixing range problems with lightning and rail is to admit that range with lightning and rail is a problem, this denial harms Avorion. Defending this is what is going to be one of the main causes of people walking out the door, me included and we're fed up of it.

Its time to stop the ''i want to keep my godly build'' and change it to ''ok its time to seriously balance this''.

There absolutely are issues with me being able to play the game due the games fabric being so torn full of these gamebreaking holes and bugs that right now i cant play because these issues are a showstopper. They frustrate me to the point i cant continue.

If by function and work well you mean enemies flying over 300km and disappearing from your HUD because they are so far away is good mechanics, i just....i dont understand why you continue to defend an obvious gamebreaking bug. I have no idea why some of you Defend obvious, proven bugs, youre killing Avorion with even this being a debate, which it shouldnt be.

Extra sales does not = faster development speed. In many cases especially in the Indie industry, it can often mean the total opposite. Some decide to keep developing, some take the money and RUN. With a AAA game company youre almost garauntee'd further development, but with Avorion...it is not possible for us to know, even if they say they plan to continue, they may not. Nobody knows.

1.0  needs to be stable, and bug free as possible. Currently, it is neither.
27 days left. See how quick these days are ticking by? And we still have denyers blockading the vital changes neccasary.
Enough of this Shielding and deflecting, put it aside for vital fixes and changes. Clock is ticking.

Are you even reading what I write completely? Please read others posts throughly before responding.  And when you disagree, explain WHY exactly that is instead of being closeminded.  I don't mind debating the issue, but when you are not giving enough proof for me to believe you and NOT really reading what I'm writing then I find it pointless.  Currently, it just seems like you want to toxic flame post because you are upset (which I get).

Everything I have suggested will fix the lightning/rail "meta".  I have never stated I want to "keep my OP lightning and rails" and I can assure you I want them nerfed.  This is you putting words in my mouth, I literally said I want them nerfed because they are OP.  I just disagree that nerfing their range is the right choice, because I don't want weapons that all have similar ranges... many railguns I find  in the beta branch already have a range barely of 10 km.   

I ALSO previously stated, the ship speeds need to be changed such that larger ships with the long range weaponry will not be faster than smaller ships which results in the "cat and mouse" 300+ km away from the start.  The issue is when these longer range large ships are speeding away tring to get at the optimal range (which it is based on) and the small ship chasing after because of its shorter range.  This is why the new AI isn't flawed, just how the game calculate's ship's speed which is also an easy fix.

I ALSO never said I dislike the damage type model.  I just don't like making all the weapons with similar ranges where the only real difference is infact the damage type.  That is far too simplistic for a game with one of the best ship building.

You are correct that alot of game companies will take the money and run, and that could be what happens here, who knows?  I'd like to think the devs with this game won't but it is a possibility.  I just hope that they use the extra money to ensure their game gets fully polished.  It doesn't hurt to be optimisitc. 



Ravien

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on: February 12, 2020, 07:47:14 AM
Please do not presume to speak "for the players." You can only speak for yourself. Others who play Avorion have their own voice, they don't need you to speak for them.



gorgofdoom

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on: February 14, 2020, 11:52:05 PM
I'm here to jump on this bandwagon. I hope ya'll don't mind.

I'll not be buying any DLC until some basics are covered.

-repair turrets/fighters do not autofire on damaged friendlies. Literally useless unless managed directly by the player.

- You cannot commission a specific ship from the workshop @ a shipyard. having to do 50 extra clicks is annoying & finding enough crew after "upgrading" to the intended layout is a huge drag

-the player cannot build any basic function stations. We need to be able to refine our own freaking ore & have our own repair docks/ shipyards. Turret, fighter, and torpedo production shouldn't be restricted to AI factions, either.

-The "new station" fee is ridiculous. 10m credits to found a station from an already existing ship in an un-owned sector? Who am I paying & what exactly am I buying?  Considering it will take about 100 in game hours for said station to actually turn a profit it seems to me that IRL it costs more to run my computer than it cost to buy the game.

- Manual aiming of turrets. with a variety of weapons equipped (lasers & machine guns, for example) you cannot hit your target with both simultaneously.  The "target lead" necessity for MG turrets seems to be completely ignored. you can compensate as the player by leading manually, but that causes laser turrets to fire into empty space. The end result is that manual-aimed turrets are 100% useless. Auto-aiming turrets being stapled with the 50% damage reduction is just an insult to injury considering that all AI-owned turrets do not have this limitation. They ARE aimed by the AI and do not have a damage reduction applied.

- AI ships cannot be ordered to dock at a station for the purpose of transferring wares/crew/fighters or buying equipment. All of this must be done manually. Transporters ease this eventually but make the beginning of the game much more annoying than it needs to be & provides a huge grind-wall. (You've gotta buy transporter software for ~3mill credits for each ship, not to mention traversing 1/2 the galaxy to find Xanion. Still have to pilot a ship to transfer crew/ wares after all this.) As a "fleet commander" style game, having to manually pilot every single one of my ships is counter intuitive. A Navy admiral doesn't manage the manning of ships directly like this.

-Saving turret blueprint configurations: By this, I mean that a workshop design should have it's turret blueprints saved to (as a part of)  it's design. So, as the player, I wouldn't have to manually find the authors turret's and apply them directly to 10-15 turret hard-points on each of my 10-20 ships. I can understand the necessity of the player installing the actual turret equipment, but the cosmetic aspect needs to be less "600 clicks per ship" just to get it to where the author intended for it to be.



FuryoftheStars

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on: February 15, 2020, 12:25:35 AM
-the player cannot build any basic function stations. We need to be able to refine our own freaking ore & have our own repair docks/ shipyards. Turret, fighter, and torpedo production shouldn't be restricted to AI factions, either.

Only thing I’m gonna comment on from your post is this.  You as the player can build these types of stations. They’re (I believe) in the last tab of station classes that you can build.



deadok

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on: February 15, 2020, 01:05:31 PM
- Auto-aiming turrets being stapled with the 50% damage reduction is just an insult to injury considering that all AI-owned turrets do not have this limitation. They ARE aimed by the AI and do not have a damage reduction applied.
I see both the problem and the solution right there. Do you?
Hint: press 'T'
I know 3 words, 3 obscene words
Armed with that knowledge I went for the walk



SneakyTacts

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on: February 16, 2020, 04:11:51 AM
- Auto-aiming turrets being stapled with the 50% damage reduction is just an insult to injury considering that all AI-owned turrets do not have this limitation. They ARE aimed by the AI and do not have a damage reduction applied.
I see both the problem and the solution right there. Do you?
Hint: press 'T'
What does ‘T’ do?



FuryoftheStars

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on: February 16, 2020, 04:51:45 AM
- Auto-aiming turrets being stapled with the 50% damage reduction is just an insult to injury considering that all AI-owned turrets do not have this limitation. They ARE aimed by the AI and do not have a damage reduction applied.
I see both the problem and the solution right there. Do you?
Hint: press 'T'
What does ‘T’ do?
I think deadok is saying leave your ship and let the captain pilot and shoot. Then you won’t need auto fire turrets and thus not incur the 50% damage penalty.

Personally, I don’t consider that an answer/solution.



Ravien

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on: February 16, 2020, 08:24:17 AM
There's a mod to remove the damage penalty for independent turrets, and another mod that makes every turret independently fired. Not sure how up to date they are.



FuryoftheStars

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on: February 16, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
There's a mod to remove the damage penalty for independent turrets, and another mod that makes every turret independently fired. Not sure how up to date they are.

Yup, aware of both and both still work just fine. That said, mods =/= solutions.  Most people do not use mods.



Alanthier

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on: February 16, 2020, 06:43:37 PM
A major issue with NPC's, is the fact that they have omnidirectional firing turrets(can't fire more than X# of them at a time, but still) and because they are not limited by A)heavy burst cooldowns like players, B) overheating or C) Power drain from weapons/Boosting, it makes it extremely unbalanced with their new speed mechanic(yet a player owned ship controlled by a captain will still incur the 50% damage reduction from indep. targeting turrets.  Just remove that stupid penalty and require them to cost like 3x more crew for each weapon type to make them independent, or more power..  Nerf railgun range/lightning range, give missiles their old speed back(but reduce their range as well), Give cannons a MUCH better projectile speed, and make player weapons dropped from npc's not so crappy.  I kid you not i can be out in tech lvl 30+ and still get tech lvl 3 iron turrets from EVERY pirate/Xsotan I fight.  It's asinine.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 06:51:43 PM by Alanthier »



FuryoftheStars

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on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:40 PM
IMO, should probably drop the whole tech level thing and make dps dependent on turret material, but that’s a minor thing.



SnakeWildlife

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on: February 16, 2020, 10:56:56 PM
Weapon balancing is certainly needed, but with 1.0 coming in 22 days, the largest game-crippling issues need fixing immediately, the rail/lightning range for example which cripples the entire combat engine needs putting up into the highest priority, the other things do not ruin the game so much and can be done afterwards.

I do agree with missile speeds needing an increase (not torpedo's) Theyre too slow to realistically hit anything unless it's stationary.
New players who start when 1.0 hits, are going to see these problems sticking out like a sore thumb.

We are 1/3rd through the time, and none of these issues are fixed. Tick tock Boxelware. Start listening to your community, so far you havent, there is deep concern.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:01:59 PM by SnakeWildlife »