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Messages - DivineEvil

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1
Suggestions / Re: turret factory built time
« on: August 14, 2018, 12:48:56 AM »
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I don't personally use this mechanics to get money, but I don't see a problem with turrets that cost more that their components. That's basically how any factory should work. It's not like we're getting money from nothing - we need to find all these components first.
But if this happens, I think that the difference between final cost and cost of ingredients shouldn't be too high. So if all these Servos and Steel could be sent to a different factories the final profit would be slightly more than making them into a turret and then selling it.
Technically that should only be profitable when using your own Turret Factory - then you're excluded from the necessity to pay for the job, as you already pay wages to the workers in the factory.


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I agree that there should be a balance between Research and Crafting. But it's important to do this gently so it will not kill turret factories near the center.
Plus then we need to rework Research mechanics - not just "place any - get random", but "place the best stuff to get even better stuff".
I don't see how turret factories near center are supposed to be something special. Sure, the turrets they can produce on their own will use the better, readily available material as base. Other than that, tech level has no basis and instead make anyone reaching the core first technically undefeatable.

Now, that's not my initial contention at all - the problem is that crafting as it is now makes looted weapons worthless. I mostly agree on the topic of Research, although it can work for me either way, whether you can research the very good high-tier turret as a "trump card" for the ship, compared to mass-produced but mediocre factory turrets, OR you can research a decent turret and then reproduce it just as any other turret, but with its own specific features, that generic turrets will never get.

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Why do you think that this is a good idea? Currently I think it's the only thing that prevents current mechanics from being exploited even more. If devs will remove component price you can just forget about commodities completely, get some cash, ai miners and drown in turrets.
Well my perspective is that there's absolutely no consistency in the ways of producing value. Like, at all, to the absurd extent. You mine resources and earn money to build a ship, then you loot turrets, because there's no way you'd bother gathering the same commodities to build turrets at the beginning, then the situation reverses, and all looted turrets go right out of the airlock into the Equipment dock to fund turret building completely by money; You also can make your own fighters using materials, but you need a turret first... You cannot produce Systems at all, and Torpedoes can only be bought. This is like taking principles from 4 different games and combining them in the most awkward way possible.

First of all, there's absolutely no reason to specifically tie turrets to the trading commodities. In the end its all credits anyway - the only difference is that you waste time and nerves relying on luck to find factories producing the necessary components. Economy in Avorion is generally oversaturated beyond reason with dozens of goods, that nobody cares about, ever, at all, and the turret components only exaggerate the issue further. Sometimes you might find yourself just spending hours upon hours looking for this ***** Warhead Factory in faction after faction, despite the fact, that necessity of ammo for the production of a turret is in general ridiculous, especially when it somehow capable of changing turret's stats, since ammunition otherwise seems abundant above any concerns (i.e. conditionally infinite).

If building kilometers-long ships doesn't demand commodities, then turrets shouldn't either. Or, let cut out all the useless food bars and proteins out of the economy (and there's a lot of that. A LOT) and replace it with commodities, that has to be used for all aspects - ships, weapons, modules and torpedoes. Not a nonsensical in-between.

As I've written in another thread before, my own perception is that economy should be primarily used for earning good credits, gaining reputation and, most importantly, supporting the NPC factions you trade with. Factions would have top-end consumer stations, that require specific sets of goods - Civilian, Industrial, Military and Technological branches. Providing the goods for particular branch gives bonuses to that faction in terms of available crew, mission/defense rewards, rate of factory production, lower prices for buying materials, stronger and more numerous ships, better equipment for sale and better results from research etc etc etc. Then it would make sense to invest heavily into helping a faction progress to reap great benefits in the long run, and it would not be so painstaking due to less variety of factories and shorter production chains.

Tying turrets into economy is redundant. It has nothing to do with exploits, as they're supposed to be addressed on their own merit - making a conjunction between them is not a solution at all.

2
Suggestions / Re: turret factory built time
« on: August 12, 2018, 09:17:51 PM »
Again, my points still stands - turret factories should only produce Common tier of their own turret patterns, or could be used to generate a blueprint for player's own turrets, so that looting, researching and consciously choosing the turrets that you get will always be preferable end-game over creating factories as close to the core as possible, that magically produce best weapons in the given instance. Ideally turrets should also be completely detached from the commodities and just use resources and credits. I believe it would be easier to balance the sell prices that way, and you also could introduce factory production time, since in that instance you'd only use resource and credits, that are not necessary to carry around like commodities, so you won't get stuck near the factory.

3
Feedback / Re: Turret block
« on: August 11, 2018, 07:04:56 PM »
if you compare turret base with armored
iron turret base have 8HP compared with 12HP armored ones and goes on
just the materials that dont have armored blocks, the base have more HP
so turret base have less HP and are bound to break easily compared with armored blocks
Sure, but it can be worked around by making a turret design with an elevated base and covering it with armor from the sides. That's apart from the fact, that it is rather hard to hit the turret base block specifically, and that this block can be extended both in horizontal dimensions and into depth. Personally I'd prefer to have turret base blocks as they are, rather than having to apply the turret designs every time I replace a turret itself.

4
- If you don't have money or slots for anti-torpedo turret, then what in the world do you have? All PD turrets are dirt cheap and take one slot, and almost completely protect you at least from a single torpedo ship. If you can't afford that, then you're really in no position to stay near the torpedo-yielding enemies. I've never had issues with torpedoes with just two PD turrets on board all the way to Trinium stage or so. NPCs can counter torpedoes if they spawn with a corresponding PD armament. They can be easily destroyed, but you pay for every torpedo you use.

- And? Persecutors prevent you from doing stuff in the sector. That's plenty.

- As far as I'm aware, Energy Signature Suppressors do hide you from pirates and Xsotans, but they do not hide NPCs, so in sectors owned by a faction pirates and Xsotans will come, but they will ignore just you until you attack them directly. At least that's how far my experience gone with these.

5
Feedback / Re: Turret block
« on: August 08, 2018, 11:34:43 PM »
Wait, if you can use a turret base block of the corresponding turret size, that is completely covered by that turret, where's the problem?

6
1. I do not see the implementation model, nor do I understand the utility of the feature. There is truly no up or down in space, and whatever the plane you pick when entering the strategic mode, your fleet will follow when orders are issued. Perhaps you could use it to see your adjustment with the galactic plane, but I do not see how it would help you to adjust to that plane and what the point of it.

2. I agree with that, although it think that it's enough to just give the ship a set of behavior models - one for the facing and one for maneuvering and one of fighting. Facing behavior defines which of its sides it should point to the target when reaching the engagement range - nose, closest broadside, top or bottom. Maneuvering defines whether it should stand still, track the target or orbit the target when at the engagement range or any other options possible to instruct. Fighting behavior defines the range of engagement - by highest weapon range, by lowest weapon range, by medium between the two or by a set distance value.

7
Not sure. So far I've never seen such exploits in practice, and whenever I take commodities from the station and then sell them to it, I get no credits.

The limitation to player trading for a station is also weird, since you're directly responsible for providing the storage space for the station, therefore you also control hot much goods can be sold to that station at any given time.

8
Suggestions / Re: rewards for research too low
« on: August 08, 2018, 11:02:38 PM »
I wonder if just crafting hundreds upon hundreds of iron/titanium turrets in the periphery can be used to produce sheap top-tier legendaries in the core...

Other than that, I still think that all of that can be sorted out by allowing reproduction of turrets you have using blueprints in the same way the Fighters can be. This way the randomness can be turned into a personal arsenal tech-base, and spending lots of weapons for research pays-off just by a single successful case, that can be reproduced for a corresponding resource and credit price.

9
In my opinion, Avorion is just about a point where the work should be done to provide cleaner and more sophisticated entity generation algorithm, that does not generate any blocks below a certain size margin and incorporates greater variety of shapes and structures on top of "rings" and "hamburgers" with use of all available wedges and corners. That would not only entirely resolve the mentioned problems with invisibly small wreckage frags, but also would make the game more presentable to increase the player base. I can understand it's a painstaking coding work even for a proficient programmer, but it has to be done at some point either way.

10
General Discussion / Re: Can we please have the resource list back?
« on: August 01, 2018, 11:31:10 PM »
Some people wanting to be able to see the resource list while piloting without having to interrupt  their flight would seem to be all the reason needed to get it restored as at least an option. It was obviously relevant to the people who want it back.
Nobody is saying its not an option. I still see no functionality. The question of why it was removed in the first place still stands, and it might be relevant as well, but I don't care enough to explore the answer.

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Much of piloting is pretty mindless. Flying to a gate when there's no asteroids in the way and you don't have a super fast ship yet doesn't require much attention. Why not let people check their resources at a glance so they can plan their next ship upgrades or whatever.
Because there's nothing you can plan without interrupting the flight anyway. There's no ship stats that you can use as a reference to do so. All you can do is to check your resources at a glance. There's nothing this knowledge gives you on its own. Resources are displayed when they're relevant - when you gain them and when you have options to spend them. There's little point in making a change, that simply allows people to be too lazy to open Building or Player menu to check resources. If you'd want to make it work that way, you'd have hundreds of different options for every little thing.

11
General Discussion / Re: Any plans on improving how ships "feel"?
« on: July 27, 2018, 04:25:41 AM »
I'm fully aware of that mode, and its functionally useless. Again, the problem is not with the controls, but with what the player is supposed to look at. In both modes, it is focused on the ship, rather than the environment and potential targets.

In both modes, mouse movement should control the camera angle. In mouse-steer, you should just hold or toggle (depending on settings) Ctrl to issue the ship to steer where the mouse is currently pointed at. In keyboard-steer, ship should simply respond to keyboard commands without affecting the camera angle at all. Camera focus should not be affected by anything other than the player's mouse input. Even the original problem with the ship immediately steering into the angle from the building menu could have been avoided if that were the initial principle.

Another interesting function would be to tap a key to "lock" the camera into the current target, which would automatically chase it and allow the player to use the mouse to focus specific blocks with manually controlled weapons. Also, weapon groups should not be manipulated by manually clicking on them and choosing what they're supposed to do, and just toggled by tapping the number keys - instead it would be perfect to hold the number keys to open a command wheel in the center of the screen and drag/release the mouse to change the behavior of that group or toggle it on/off in less than a second.

All of that might allow for more convenient controls and truly engaging capital ship combat, but as of now were limited to the choice between a kilometer-long fighter standoffs and another mode, that nobody uses for pretty much anything ever.

12
General Discussion / Re: Can we please have the resource list back?
« on: July 27, 2018, 12:06:05 AM »
Personally I don't see a reason for it. It got removed because it was irrelevant in the piloting of the ship. It is displayed in build mode, which you can enter at any moment, and the total number of resources is displayed while you're collecting them.

13
General Discussion / Re: Any plans on improving how ships "feel"?
« on: July 25, 2018, 09:55:23 PM »
I think one of the most significant downsides mentioned here, is that there's no way to conveniently operate turrets and look around your ship. I've made a suggestion thread over a year ago, requesting the settings for the Ctrl functionality customization, that would allow to use Ctrl to toggle between free camera and ship steering, etc. Unfortunately it still have no been addressed. That still limits the effective ways for using ships to just sticking as many weapons on the nose of the ship as possible, as broadside or gundeck builds simply cannot be controlled effectively. The perfect model for me would be to free camera being active by default, and by holding Ctrl you would order your ship to steer towards the cursor.

Other than that, I also agree with the sound problem presented, as most of the effects are very generic, sharp, high-pitch sounds, that prevents any immersion into the space environment of the game. So far only the scraping collision "submarine" effects offer that feel. I find particular Cannon fire with air whistle especially annoying at the moment. Most of the sounds should be more muffled and low-passing.

Not sure about camera shake and graphical effects. I might agree, that damaged blocks (by %) could use some minor particle effects bleeding smoke and flames, and perhaps texture overlays, that show external damage, which also make it easier to identify the damage, but it should be adjustable in the graphical settings from the get-go to prevent performance issues for players with lower specs right from the gates.  In that case, I would even like destroyed ships to have a delayed explosion effect with a shockwave force depending on size (Descent : Freespace anyone?).

Camera shake is largely unnecessary, and many players in my experience will likely see it as clear negative with no benefit.

14
General Discussion / Re: NPC Cargo ship docking lasers?
« on: July 24, 2018, 07:40:43 PM »
Well, technically there's such a tool accessible to a player. It's just Force turrets with Self-Pull and Self-Push respectively, which NPCs fire onto the docking hatch block.

15
Suggestions / Re: Shield colour
« on: June 01, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »
I like the idea, because it would make your ship look more sci-fi or not at all if you could change the colour, so i really hope it gets in the game!
Personally I don't see any value in changing the color, or how it can make a ship look different in any way except silly. Shield is a shield and has a specific technology behind it nad is perfectly fine as now.

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For the more rounded part... well i think that its not really going to work, because there are no round parts in avorion... and never will be... so i think it would look a bit weird, but maybe it would work if the shieldblocks became a kind of integrity field generators, that a shieldgen covers a certain area and so you need to place more of them around your ship. It would be awesome if they had different hitboxes, but can imaginr thats quite hard...
The way I see the suggestion, author seems to be concerned about the shape of the field, that disregards the slopes and only expressed by enlarged bounding boxes of the ship parts. At least I don't believe he would seriously go as far as to advocate for rounded shield boundaries, when there's no any rounded blocks or elements anywhere else.

I completely agree, and see no reason why it still looks as awful as it is now. I also support the author's idea of the impact "splashes" mapped onto the bounding shape, instead of the entire thing flaring. The effect really should only be that dramatic when the shield is blocking some massive damage momentarily, like from a torpedo or a cannon burst. Hope there will be the time for such stylistic improvements sooner than later.

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